Razor 2.0 or 2.1 or SMS75

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Victor,
I'm happy that you're happy with your system. I'm
actually not trying to get you to switch or sell you one. And it's great that you got a deal on one. But their website shows the SMS100 to be the same price as the Stealth...without the mods.
Cave Adventurers - Hollis SMS100 - Marianna, Florida USA - Never Undersold!

I am aware of the politics in Mexico as I've met most of the major players. Not a lot different from
the politics in the Florida cave community or any other community with a bunch of guys full of testosterone. But I'm not aware of any of the major sidemount guys switching to GUE. I know Patrick took a GUE course for interest. So did Jason. But they're both still teaching sidemount in the Stealth. And I think the main reason why they all switched to the Stealth and Razor from the Nomad is because they work better for their environment. But I think it's a great disservice to downplay the exploration that they do and the environment that they're in as "warm water shallow caves". It's pretty challenging stuff!
And I've seen enough people with their "big" rigs bashing the crap out of the caves down there.

I'm not trying to trash your rig or the way that you dive. I'm just defending the way that I dive and when people say I can't do something with my Stealth that I've been doing for quite a while. I've formed my opinion after having owned and tried both styles of systems. Not from reading the internet or watching how someone else is doing it (who might not actually be doing it properly).
 
Oh, the great tank debate...

I like the metaphor that lighter tanks attach to you, while you attach to heavy tanks.

Everybody would rather have more gas than less, I can understand why you would choose heavier tanks for general diving. It's difficult for me to understand why you would select heavy, difficult to handle, tanks on sidemounted dives that are going to involve extended journeys through restrictions. On those dives, it seems to me that maneuverability and ease of handling are more important.
 
[/QUOTE]
I'd switch to the Stealth (or at least the Stealth wing) if I saw definitive proof that it can handle big steels (Worthington HP100s, HP130s, LP108s all count) at nearly the same level my SMS100 can. Until then, I'll be plenty happy with my current setup.[/QUOTE]


As an Edd trained sm diver who dives both and Edd-modded sms100 and a stealth, I will tell you without a doubt the stealth can do anything the SMS can do.

I personally wasn't sure if I liked the stealth better at first. As I'vr dove it, I've come to prefer it to my SMS. The stealth can do anything my SMS can do, but has more versatility than the SMS. I love my SMS still, it's just so bulky. I've dove my stealth in Florida caves with steels, Mexican caves in Ali's, and French caves in freezing ass water with thick undergarments and lots of lead. I can say when it comes to cold water diving the stealth shines over the SMS and a weight plate.

Dont get me wrong. I love both. But my tanks are do for VIP soon and the cam ands are coming off. When they go back on I'm setting them up for my stealth and will likely rarely ever dive my SMS again. My primary tanks have been set for my SMS and I've been too lazy to reset them for the stealth.
 
Victor,
I'm happy that you're happy with your system. I'm
actually not trying to get you to switch or sell you one. And it's great that you got a deal on one. But their website shows the SMS100 to be the same price as the Stealth...without the mods.
Cave Adventurers - Hollis SMS100 - Marianna, Florida USA - Never Undersold!

I am aware of the politics in Mexico as I've met most of the major players. Not a lot different from
the politics in the Florida cave community or any other community with a bunch of guys full of testosterone. But I'm not aware of any of the major sidemount guys switching to GUE. I know Patrick took a GUE course for interest. So did Jason. But they're both still teaching sidemount in the Stealth. And I think the main reason why they all switched to the Stealth and Razor from the Nomad is because they work better for their environment. But I think it's a great disservice to downplay the exploration that they do and the environment that they're in as "warm water shallow caves". It's pretty challenging stuff!
And I've seen enough people with their "big" rigs bashing the crap out of the caves down there.

I'm not trying to trash your rig or the way that you dive. I'm just defending the way that I dive and when people say I can't do something with my Stealth that I've been doing for quite a while. I've formed my opinion after having owned and tried both styles of systems. Not from reading the internet or watching how someone else is doing it (who might not actually be doing it properly).

I wasn't trashing the way you dive at all, nor was I downplaying the exploration happening in Mx and the Caribbean. It's SUPER impressive. What I was defending is that VERY serious exploration dives have occurred with SMS100/Nomad/Armadillo type sm rigs. There's nothing wrong with that style rig. They've been dismissed multiple times in this thread, and my point was that they're very capable and very useful for the dives they're designed for.

I wasn't expecting that you try and sell me on anything, I was simply stating that I'd be diving a different rig if I thought there was something better for the type of diving I am most frequently doing.
 
I've dove with hp100s with my razor. It wasn't a problem. I just prefer lighter, closer-to-neutral tanks, in particular my lp85s.

I don't think anyone has dismissed that very serious cave exploration has taken place with the Nomad and Armadillo.

What I do question is to what extent very serious dives have taken place specifically with the SMS100 (or anything in Hollis') line, and if any such dives were made, were they by people with a financial interest, I.e., oceanic/Hollis dealers?

Razor vs Hollis is, after all, the topic of the thread :p

---------- Post added August 14th, 2014 at 10:56 PM ----------

Oh and so there isn't any doubt-my tank preferences were the same when I dove backmounted doubles. Lp85s were the best, followed by al80s. I've dove bigger tanks (up to double 119s), I just don't like them.

My preference might be different if I was built differently. I'm 5'9", with a 39" chest, 155 lbs. I've noticed that divers taller than 5'11" or so have an easier time in HP 110s and 120s and lp 107s (backmount) than I did.
 
What I do question is to what extent very serious dives have taken place specifically with the SMS100 (or anything in Hollis') line, and if any such dives were made, were they by people with a financial interest, I.e., oceanic/Hollis
dj, Edd Sorernson, who is a Hollis, Dive Rite, Halcyon and Hog dealer, probably has more sidemount dives than anyone. He's done thousands of cave exploration and survey dives in his SMS100. He designed the SMS75 to address shortcomings in its design. Edd also designed the first overhead sidemount course through PSAI.

This linked article has a picture of his rig.
http://www.floridadiveconnection.co...sidemount-bcd-featuring-edd-sorensons-design/

If you don't know Edd recommend making a trip to Merritt's Mill Pond in Marianna.

It's also good to point out the four cave rescues Edd executed, all using the SMS100. http://miami.cbslocal.com/video/103...mit-part-three-the-miracles-in-merritts-pond/
 
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I've dove with hp100s with my razor. It wasn't a problem. I just prefer lighter, closer-to-neutral tanks, in particular my lp85s.

I don't think anyone has dismissed that very serious cave exploration has taken place with the Nomad and Armadillo.

What I do question is to what extent very serious dives have taken place specifically with the SMS100 (or anything in Hollis') line, and if any such dives were made, were they by people with a financial interest, I.e., oceanic/Hollis dealers?

Razor vs Hollis is, after all, the topic of the thread :p

---------- Post added August 14th, 2014 at 10:56 PM ----------

Oh and so there isn't any doubt-my tank preferences were the same when I dove backmounted doubles. Lp85s were the best, followed by al80s. I've dove bigger tanks (up to double 119s), I just don't like them.

My preference might be different if I was built differently. I'm 5'9", with a 39" chest, 155 lbs. I've noticed that divers taller than 5'11" or so have an easier time in HP 110s and 120s and lp 107s (backmount) than I did.

I get why you'd like smaller tanks, especially your size. I'm 6'6" and 250lbs with 52" shoulders. I also haven't found a stage rigging I think is clean enough, so I like doing stage dives without any stages (LP108s are more than HP100s and a stage) :D

As for Hollis SMS100 exploration....it doesn't have the mileage on it other systems do, simply because it's relatively new to the game and all the "easy" stuff was already knocked out. However, I know for a fact that the SMS100 and SMS75 are two of the most common systems in opening up Madison's deep section and completing that surveying. None of those guys are dealers or sell gear at all. New passage is being found constantly in Twin, Hole, and JB by Edd's crew.....and they're dealers for everything, they just like that system best (not the stock one, though). I also know a lot of big pushes in the DR (and maybe Bahamas) were done in the SMS100.

The reason I was including the Nomad and Armadillo and other big-style harnesses is because earlier it was said that the SMS100 clearly hasn't done any REAL exploration dives because it's got too many things hanging off of it and has bungee everywhere. My point was that the SMS100 had done quite a bit, but due to its age didn't have the raw footage doubles would have.....but that even OTHER big rigs with the same "limitations" (imaginary) of the SMS100 had done a lot of successful dives. I think that mentioning them was a totally valid point.
 
Do you really think it is that relevant for the average or even advanced diver which exact system was used for the deepest cave penetrations?
I don't deny that it give a good hint in certain directions, but most of those divers could, would and have done dives even skilled 'normal people' could not always match in almost any equipment imaginable (and a lot of that equipment, skill an training would never be useable in normal circumstances).

Sidemount (any system to a degree) is ideal for anyplace tight, narrow or otherwise restricted, yes of course.
What's more astounding about it to me is how useful it is 'everywhere else' (almost).
 

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