What can I learn from PADI Tec 40 course?

[Teller]

Well, that's okay then... assuming he wants to conduct all of his technical diving within the FL area...

(yes, availability and cost of tmx fills was the issue I was referring to... nothing to do with agency acceptance)

I'm not an advocate of 'deep air', but 40-50m air diving is quite practicable in many locations, especially 'warm water' areas. I don't consider 40-50m 'deep air'... that term used to apply to much deeper depths....

Air is cheap and plentiful...tmx is not. The more remote, and less developed, the locations you dive... the more critical that consideration becomes.

I can't talk for anyone else, but if I restricted myself to tmx for diving in this depth range, I'd have accomplished only a tiny fraction of the technical dives I've done..

Tmx is a tool.... use it when you calculate a need for it. It's not a dogma. Air diving is a good entry into tech... it helps offset costs (helium) to a later stage in development, when you might need it to venture to deeper depths. It's also good for overhead diving (wrecks and caves)... where END is more critical.... but who'd recommend a noobie tech diver to start flinging themselves into overhead where helium was necessary... Progression one step at a time is prudent.

Is there a reason why you cant be trimix trained but use nitrox when trimix is not available? I am trimix trained but I use nitrox all the time. The OP could take a entry level trimix course which includes deco training and then use which ever gas he wants or which ever is available. I dont see how that limits his dive shop options or waste money.

 

[DevonDiver]

So, in essence, you're saying the 'deep air' is a terrible thing, to be avoided.... but a novice tech diver's first experience of it should be away from supervision?

Train and dive with tmx with a shallow END, but if there is none on holiday do those dive on air and see what a deeper END feels like for the first time?

I see potential hazards in that...

 

[drrich2]

Is there a reason why you cant be trimix trained but use nitrox when trimix is not available? I am trimix trained but I use nitrox all the time. The OP could take a entry level trimix course which includes deco training and then use which ever gas he wants or which ever is available. I dont see how that limits his dive shop options or waste money.

In theory it shouldn't. My concern is that if you try to teach me too many different things in detail, I don't retain much that I don't go on to use regularly. And that I may not remember some of the things I do need as well, if part of my focus was diverted.

I'm not talking about trying to scrape by as ignorantly as possible short of dying; just questioning whether the trimix portion would add substantially to the content to be covered. I've not taken any tec. classes so I'm speculating, but if I were 'course shopping,' this is a question I'd have with your approach.

Richard.

 

[victorzamora]

I haven't taken a Rec Trimix course, but I wonder how it compares to a GOOD Tec40 class or a GUE-F course in terms of TechReational-style diving. Does it introduce you to tech gear and tech-style precision?

 

[Teller]

So, in essence, you're saying the 'deep air' is a terrible thing, to be avoided.... but a novice tech diver's first experience of it should be away from supervision?

Train and dive with tmx with a shallow END, but if there is none on holiday do those dive on air and see what a deeper END feels like for the first time?

I see potential hazards in that...

Is that what I said? Deep air dive for the first time unsupervised...maybe I should stop drinking while I am posting because I dont remember saying that.

If you cant get mix and you need it then dont dive.

I haven't taken a Rec Trimix course, but I wonder how it compares to a GOOD Tec40 class or a GUE-F course in terms of TechReational-style diving. Does it introduce you to tech gear and tech-style precision?

Depends on the instructor. Standards say things like demonstrate adaquate buoyancy control but it is up to the instructor to determine what that is. Ive seen some instructors say a 10' variance is acceptable. I dont know many tech instructors that consider that adaquate. Propulsion technique, trim and situational awareness are just a few things that must be demonstrated. IANTD rec trimix is considered a recreational course even though it has helium, max depth of 140' or 160' for adv rec trimix and they both have deco.

Is there a reason why you cant be trimix trained but use nitrox when trimix is not available? I am trimix trained but I use nitrox all the time. The OP could take a entry level trimix course which includes deco training and then use which ever gas he wants or which ever is available. I dont see how that limits his dive shop options or waste money.

In theory it shouldn't. My concern is that if you try to teach me too many different things in detail, I don't retain much that I don't go on to use regularly. And that I may not remember some of the things I do need as well, if part of my focus was diverted.

I'm not talking about trying to scrape by as ignorantly as possible short of dying; just questioning whether the trimix portion would add substantially to the content to be covered. I've not taken any tec. classes so I'm speculating, but if I were 'course shopping,' this is a question I'd have with your approach.

Richard.

Deco is the main portion of the academics. Adding helium doesnt add vary much. Even at the normoxic level. Look at a TDI manual. 3/4s is extended range and the rest is trimix.

 

[victorzamora]

I don't know how much deco. time it'd cost me to stay down an extra 10 or 15 minutes at depth.

I just ran the numbers, and this program is giving me 5 minutes of deco for 10 minutes at 130ft on air. That's your NDL. With just a tank of O2, and air as bottom gas, you're looking at 15 minutes of deco (10 more than within NDL) for 23 minutes at the bottom. It gets better at slightly shallower depths on EANx or deeper on air. 130ft is about as "bad" of a depth as I've found for doing this comparison.

EAN32 at 100ft, just O2 for deco, EAN32 for no deco: 5min SS is 30minutes. 10min additional deco is 55 minutes. Last time I went to an NC wreck, it was incredibly sad to have traveled that far and paid that much for 8 minutes of bottom time.

And what all gear hassles would be involved. Side-mount with a pair of 80's and a pony bottle of nitrox for accelerating deco?

Yup, pretty much.

 

[DevonDiver]

Is that what I said? Deep air dive for the first time unsupervised...maybe I should stop drinking while I am posting because I dont remember saying that.

If you cant get mix and you need it then dont dive.

The point simply being that END is a factor to be considered when calculating your own comfort levels and limitations. Replacing AN/DP/ER with Rec Trimix removes deeper ENDs from the training/experience history. It's impossible to calculate a 'deep air' comfort zone without that prior experience. So, in absence of that knowledge, the diver can only prudently calculate their own personal max-END based on what the limits they experienced in Rec Trimix training (30m/100ft END?).

In short - it's the application of END to the recommended limitations that all prudent divers adhere to - "diving within the limits of your training and experience".

So, if your training/experience is limited to END 30m/100ft, then you need helium for any dives below 30m/100ft. As you say, you shouldn't dive beyond that. That, as mentioned, is quite impractical for many divers, on many occasions, in the real world.

This thread is specifically about the Tec40 course. That qualification is limited to 40m/130ft and no more than 10mins non-accelerated deco. It's very much an entry-level technical qualification (or very 'tecreational' depending on how it is conducted). It' favors well in comparison to a recreational 'Deep Diver' course, but it is a HUGE leap to suggest Rec Trimix as an alternative. Unless, of course, you choose to disregard familiarity with/understanding of narcosis as an important training outcome and/or you can ensure that ALL your future diving will tied with an affordable and plentiful supply of helium..

Point for debate: A Rec Trimix qualified diver going to 40m/130ft on air is less qualified/experienced under those parameters that a recreational-qualified 'Deep Diver'. Discuss...

 

[ianr33]

You can expect to learn how to kneel on the bottom like a real diver

Tec 40 | Desert Rose

 

[ianr33]

In the 120 - 130, even down to 150 foot maybe, range, NDLs are pretty limiting. You buy plane tickets, pay charter costs, ride the boat all the way out & back...might be nice to stay down awhile. Maybe 20 minutes of finning around instead of 5?

Some of the best dives I've ever done have been 100' or thereabouts shore dives in Cayman. Take 2 or 3 nitrox tanks and spend 40 or 50 minutes at depth. Even just using back gas the deco is not that much. It's incredibly liberating when you are not constrained by NDLs and a mere 80 cu ft of gas.

 

[Teller]

Is that what I said? Deep air dive for the first time unsupervised...maybe I should stop drinking while I am posting because I dont remember saying that.

If you cant get mix and you need it then dont dive.

The point simply being that END is a factor to be considered when calculating your own comfort levels and limitations. Replacing AN/DP/ER with Rec Trimix removes deeper ENDs from the training/experience history. It's impossible to calculate a 'deep air' comfort zone without that prior experience. So, in absence of that knowledge, the diver can only prudently calculate their own personal max-END based on what the limits they experienced in Rec Trimix training (30m/100ft END?).

In short - it's the application of END to the recommended limitations that all prudent divers adhere to - "diving within the limits of your training and experience".

So, if your training/experience is limited to END 30m/100ft, then you need helium for any dives below 30m/100ft. As you say, you shouldn't dive beyond that. That, as mentioned, is quite impractical for many divers, on many occasions, in the real world.

This thread is specifically about the Tec40 course. That qualification is limited to 40m/130ft and no more than 10mins non-accelerated deco. It's very much an entry-level technical qualification (or very 'tecreational' depending on how it is conducted). It' favors well in comparison to a recreational 'Deep Diver' course, but it is a HUGE leap to suggest Rec Trimix as an alternative. Unless, of course, you choose to disregard familiarity with/understanding of narcosis as an important training outcome and/or you can ensure that ALL your future diving will tied with an affordable and plentiful supply of helium..

Point for debate: A Rec Trimix qualified diver going to 40m/130ft on air is less qualified/experienced under those parameters that a recreational-qualified 'Deep Diver'. Discuss...

You keep mentioning deep air. A prereq to IANTD rec trimix is advanced nitrox. IANTD adv nitrox has a max depth of 140 with deco. Is that not deep air?