What can I learn from PADI Tec 40 course?

[DevonDiver]

You keep mentioning deep air. A prereq to IANTD rec trimix is advanced nitrox. IANTD adv nitrox has a max depth of 140 with deco. Is that not deep air?

It's END 40m/130ft.
The definition of 'deep air' is quite subjective - personally, I think it is not... others, I know believe it could be. It seems increasingly popular to consider 'deep air' as anything beyond END30m/100ft etc etc That's a relatively new 'definition'.

"I had to get up in the morning at ten o'clock at night, half an hour before I went to bed, eat a lump of cold poison, work twenty-nine hours a day down mill, and pay mill owner for permission to come to work, and when we went diving, our gas would kill us, and dance about on our graves singing "Hallelujah".
But you try and tell the young people today that... and they won't believe ya'..."



Given that Tec40 has END 40m/130ft - why would IANTD Adv Nitrox/Rec Trimix be any better? That's what the OP was asking (not about Extended Range training). IANTD Adv Nitrox sounds quite similar in output to Tec40. So what's the issue?

 

[ajduplessis]

If I am not mistaken, deep air is pre-req to adv nitrox for IANTD.

IMO deep air training is vital before moving to any form of trimix.

@DD: your write-up is good, but please change the yellow text to blue or something else, my eye are still hurting

 

[waterpirate]

The differance is/would be that the punter would be tested at depth for their narcosos threshold. Triox would then be offered for the same test. The student and instructor could then evaluate/decide if triox is wanted/needed.

Holidays and traveling whilst diving aside, training should be geared to your local diving. If helium is tuff to get in your hood, do not rush to triox. If helium is available in your hood, triox should be embraced.

To me happiness is diving a 20% cut above 150fsw with a hot deco gas. YMMV
Eric

 

[danvolker]

I have about 10 different spec and a PADI Master Diver. Looking to learn more about Deco and Dbl's. Not looking to get deep into Tech but just some simple basics. Is the the right course for me?

When someone asks this..... Just say NO!!!. Like the ads on your behavior when being offered dangerous drugs !

For most divers, Tech is not the right way to go...regardless of how much money a dive shop can make on them. For those tech- diving IS right for, there will always be a much better direction to tech...than PADI TECH.

The dumbing down and modularization and simplifying that made PADI jump ahead of NAUI and the others ( with harder instruction) in the 80's and 90's, is EXACTLY the opposite strength you want for a agency that is teaching Tech Diving. All their reduced standards, all the "cheats" they use so that a diver with poor skills can make it through the course...this is not something to embrace.

IANTD, GUE, UTD...these are the intelligent directions for most divers that have the right reasons, and the right skill potentials, to consider tech diving......

This transcends the common adage that it is the instructor, more than the agency--because there is such blatant stupidity in the gear choices allowed and demanded by Padi Tech, and in the complete lack of skills showcased by so many of their tech instructors...many of which can be videoed on deep wrecks swimming at 45 degree angles( head up-feet down) with stages at 45 degree angles as well, rather than hiding in the slipstream under the diver's arm pit.....they "don't know, what they don't know"...and this is a big problem for an instructor or an agency.

 

[waterpirate]

I strongly disagree. It is still all about the instructor. That being said I would not take advanced training from a PADI instructor that only held PADI certs. However I would take a PADI cert from a PADI instructor that had instructor certs from other or multiple agencies in the tech realm, and was actively doing the dives beyond the level I was seeking training. The old PADI gripe about dumbing down only holds true if it is a myoptic view of PADI from the instructor in question.

Two perfect examples. Jim Wyat does a Padi program and so do the brothers in Princeton NJ. I recieved training in Princeton and I certainly would not dismiss JIm Wyat for any reason.
Eric

 

[DevonDiver]

...there is such blatant stupidity in the gear choices allowed and demanded by Padi Tech,.....

Please explain your critique...

The following lists the equipment that is required for the Tec 40 course.
• Any one of the following appropriately labeled and marked options:
• A single cylinder with a dual outlet valve (eg H valve or Y valve).
• A single cylinder with single outlet valve and a pony bottle. Pony bottle should have same gas as main cylinder, or be breathable at the deepest planned dive depth. The minimum size cylinder is one with a free gas capacity of 850 litres/30 cubic feet.
• Back mounted doubles with dual isolator manifold
• Two side mounted cylinders (sidemount configuration)
•Two complete regulators, one with a two metre/seven foot hose for air sharing and one with SPG. Where two, unmanifolded cylinders are used (sidemount or pony bottle), each regulator must have an SPG, carried and/or marked in such a way as to avoid confusion between them.
• Stage/deco cylinder with attachment hardware and a single second stage regulator and SPG. Note: It is recommended that each diver have and use individual stage/deco cylinders. However, it is acceptable for students to practice required skills with a shared cylinder.
• BCD with D-rings or other attachment points for a stage/deco cylinder. (See note below.)
• Two dive computers, or one computer with a backup timer and depth gauge with dive tables.
• Exposure suit appropriate for environment and dive duration (if students will use dry suits, they should be trained/experienced in their use in recreational diving prior to using them for tec training or diving).
• Argon dry suit inflation system (as needed for environment)
• Weight system (If required. Note: Students and staff should weight for the contingency of decompressing with near-empty cylinders.)
• Jon line (as needed for environment)
• Inflatable signal tube, whistle and/or other visual and audible surface signaling devices. Note that a sausage type DSMB may double for the inflatable signal tube.
• Reel and lift bag (bright yellow preferred) or DSMB. A suitable DSMB has sufficient buoyancy to help steady a diver during a drifting decompression, and is unlikely to spill when deployed from the underwater.
• Knife/cutting device and back up
• Slate
• Back up mask (optional)
• Compass
• Lights (optional – as required for dive environment)
• Backup buoyancy control – the student must have a reliable means for controlling buoyancy and maintaining decompression stops in midwater with a failed primary BCD. This is usually accomplished with a backup BCD (double wings) or, when using light weight cylinders, the use of a dry suit is permitted.

Note that in cases where the student is carrying a relatively small quantity of overall weight (e.g., a single cylinder only) one source of buoyancy control may be acceptable at the instructor’s discretion, provided that there is a reliable alternative method for maintaining decompression stops, such as ascending along a mooring line or decompressing on the bottom if topography allows.
Note: A lift bag/DSMB is not considered a reliable method of backup buoyancy control.

...the complete lack of skills showcased by so many of their tech instructors.......they "don't know, what they don't know"...and this is a big problem for an instructor or an agency.

I somewhat agree. PADI made a rush to saturate the tech market and claim a majority share. That led to a lot of fast-tracking of instructors. Most critically, it led to a lot of fast-tracking instructor trainers. Once the cadre is flawed, weak instructor experience becomes normalized... and it is hard, very hard, to remedy.

That said, I've seen other three-letter-abbreviation tech agencies doing the precise same thing, either globally or on a regional basis. It's no secret...

 

[Teller]

You keep mentioning deep air. A prereq to IANTD rec trimix is advanced nitrox. IANTD adv nitrox has a max depth of 140 with deco. Is that not deep air?

It's END 40m/130ft.
The definition of 'deep air' is quite subjective - personally, I think it is not... others, I know believe it could be. It seems increasingly popular to consider 'deep air' as anything beyond END30m/100ft etc etc That's a relatively new 'definition'.

"I had to get up in the morning at ten o'clock at night, half an hour before I went to bed, eat a lump of cold poison, work twenty-nine hours a day down mill, and pay mill owner for permission to come to work, and when we went diving, our gas would kill us, and dance about on our graves singing "Hallelujah".
But you try and tell the young people today that... and they won't believe ya'..."



Given that Tec40 has END 40m/130ft - why would IANTD Adv Nitrox/Rec Trimix be any better? That's what the OP was asking (not about Extended Range training). IANTD Adv Nitrox sounds quite similar in output to Tec40. So what's the issue?

Its a better option in my opinion because now the diver has the choice to use air or trimix whereas if he take tech 40 he cant get mix. It puts another tool in the tool box.

 

[DevonDiver]

Its a better option in my opinion because now the diver has the choice to use air or trimix whereas if he take tech 40 he cant get mix. It puts another tool in the tool box.

My first response is that it seems like an awful lot to introduce at the entry-level. That said, I'm not familiar with the IANTD Rec Trimix program. Is it 4 dives minimum? What's left out, to fit in the trimix knowledge/training? The Tec40 is pretty much at capacity, so I just don't see how you'd fit it all in with a comparable program.

Personally, I'd like to see a diver hold stops, accurately follow a run-time, manage some proper ascents before throwing helium into the mix. A 4 dive minimum course is adequate to cover those basics. Trimix can follow, whether rec or tec..

It isn't the size of the tool box that matters,..... what matters is the expertise which the craftsman handles the tools he has.

 

[maniago]

Good god, this is not a thread about PADI bashing! Get off your soapbox.

Many of us just want to hit 100', stay there for a good while, knowingly enter deco and carry/do what we need to safely get out of it. Diving a deco plan. Its not friggin' rocket science or black magic or needs a tech degree.

Who offers the proper instruction that is available to a lot of people in a lot of places?

 

[mselenaous]

Why is that? Would a PADI center deny a IANTD certification? I dont think so.

There way fewer IANTD instructors than PADI tech instructors.
Example: There are 30 dive ops in the Upper Keys, at least a dozen + PADI tech instructors and not even 1 IANTD instructor.

The cert cards are universally accepted.



Happy Diving!
Elena