Must gear be purchased from the LDS you are getting Open Water certified at?

[redacted]

OW training can be a money looser deal..I had a weekend schedule up and had 2 people in it. One of the students only could make Friday night. The schedule was for AFri-Sat-Sun..so this became a 1 person course. This person only purchased required mask/snkl/fins..So we did Fri-Sat-Sun and he was such a mess I did another pool session with him at no charge. He paid $269 for course..I get paid $300. from facility. The facility still had to cover cost of use of their pool/insurance/power..All said and done this was a loss. Should we have just canceled this class and ruin someones plans for that weekend? The 1 student had plans to leave for a vacation following week and planned on being able to go diving.

I am quites sure that specific circumstances may result in the occasional loss of $$ for a shop; but that loss was not what the shop planned. My point is that shops that charge x for OW may not make their normal profit margin for training courses at that price, but the price does not put them in a position of losing $$ with every student.

 

[oly5050user]

So they don't supply weights?

probably because they use weight belts instead of weight intergrated bcds..its a royal pia to adjust positioning of lead on belt for multiple students, takes alot of time from class, and much easier to conduct buoyancy checks with weight integrated bcds.

---------- Post added June 26th, 2013 at 10:15 AM ----------

That shop has been around since 1954 so they must have enough support from enough divers to get along ok. I have priced numerous things with them and found them very competitive. My GF is taking the ow there and we bought her a zena for 539 from them. Same bc on leisure pro is 549..

If you are not happy feel free to talk with your wallet. The shop can have whatever policies they like and the market will sort it out. Maybe they had a diver get in trouble with some life support gear off Craigslist so this is the policy they have now.

Good luck hope she enjoys diving wherever she ends up.


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Jon.R sounds like a voice of reason..I can understand the LDS not allowing a bcd purchased elsewhere to be used in their course. Sometimes people show up with old stuff that has not been maintained. From a instructors point of view , if the class has all the same gear it is easier to teach as you only have to explain once, Not multiple times showing how a standard bc inflator works and then having to show how a air 2 would be used . Uniformity makes the class go smoother. Also some people may complain that their brand new bcd is damaged from the the pool or the staff of the LDS damaged it and expect the LDs to make good on it. If purchased from the LDs a fix to the problem is easier to do than if item was purchased elsewhere. If this LDS has been around since 1954 I would hope that that they would have tried to offer the customer either a less expensive bcd to fit their budget or perhaps network with another LDs to get her one. If they did not have a bcd in rental that fit her perhaps they should put one in..We have really tiny bcd's in rental that fit kids that are 8-10 years old and recommend parents to take our rental with them on overseas vacations as the resort most likely will not have a size to fit child and ones that are freaking HUGE..

---------- Post added June 26th, 2013 at 10:20 AM ----------

I am quites sure that specific circumstances may result in the occasional loss of $$ for a shop; but that loss was not what the shop planned. My point is that shops that charge x for OW may not make their normal profit margin for training courses at that price, but the price does not put them in a position of losing $$ with every student.

True..But at times a LDS has to take the loss to keep a customer happy.Hopefully they appreciate the effort and return for future purchases and refer people there.

 

[MrChen]

Where do you draw the line, do they require their gear for AOW as well? I know it's a nuisance to get your money back and reschedule elsewhere, but this sure sounds like BS to me.

I'd just do the class in their rental provided gear, and then go dive in your own gear afterwards. It's the easiest solution and then just never do business with them again.

If you have time, then definitely go elsewhere for everything.

 

[Lorenzoid]

If the shop has surprised you with some unorthodox policy so early in the process, it's likely they will surprise you with something else later on. Get out now while you still can, and go to a shop that has the kind of policies that are more typical. Even giving them the benefit of the doubt as to their motives, requiring or pushing you to buy gear from them for an OW class is just not typical.

 

[flots am]

I can understand the LDS not allowing a bcd purchased elsewhere to be used in their course. Sometimes people show up with old stuff that has not been maintained.

It's a BC. The worst that would happen is it wouldn't hold air, so you tell the student "this needs to be repaired"

In fact, if the BC fails in class, it's a great opportunity to discuss "what to do when your BC won't hold air". Much better for them to learn that "stuff breaks" in a class than on a wall dive.

flots.

 

[NW Dive Dawg]

probably because they use weight belts instead of weight intergrated bcds..its a royal pia to adjust positioning of lead on belt for multiple students, takes alot of time from class, and much easier to conduct buoyancy checks with weight integrated bcds.

Assuming that the class uses belts for ditching, surface and bottom R & R skills, etc... the weights should be included. Anyway, they were in all of my classes.

It's a BC. The worst that would happen is it wouldn't hold air, so you tell the student "this needs to be repaired"

flots.

Actually, the worst that can happen is a runaway inflator along with a stuck disconnect.

 

[flots am]

Actually, the worst that can happen is a runaway inflator along with a stuck disconnect.

Are all the dump valves also stuck?

flots

 

[crosshairs]

Are all the dump valves also stuck?

flots

yeah, that's a bad day right there...

 

[ams511]

Ok, so an update. I went to the dive shop today after work. I asked them specifically about how my wife had come in with her own bcd. Blah blah. They obviously knew who I was. Mikes wife was in the shop. I said "My wife came in last night for classes with her on BCD" she nodded her head in agreement. I said a "Apparently I'm required to have purchased my BCD from here, as it was apparently a liability issue?" She confirmed this was the case. And said that there insurance policy required "All Life Support System's" to have to be purchased through them for insurance to cover an issue if any, that had ever occurred.

Thinking to myself I have thought that maybe the Zeagle would be a better buy and the $200.00 dollars extra for the BCD might be well spent. However, the tactic still seems somewhat misleading. I mentioned the fact that this was never told to me and their response was "Well we never thought you'd go buy gear somewhere else either". Being a mom and pop shop I'd tend to believe they think I hurt their dignity by going to another shop.

Ultimately in the end I am somewhat forced to make a decision here. My wife can use their rental BCD's and with a small frame potentially be uncomfortable throughout the dive. Or I can spend the extra $200.00 and have a BCD that could last me the next 20 years, and she can become proficient and comfortable in. Or lastly walk away from it all and have to reschedule things.

In the end I think I might bite at the Zeagle, however I probably wont ever be doing business here again. As I feel somewhat bait and switched.

My question to the shop is what is better from a training and safety standpoint, your wife using a properly fitting BC purchased elsewhere or an ill fitting BC supplied by the shop?

As already mentioned this is BS. I sincerely doubt there is any requirement from their insurance company that the equipment needs to be supplied or purchased from them. For example, if I wanted to take an advanced course from them I am sure they would let me use own equipment.

---------- Post added June 26th, 2013 at 11:15 AM ----------

Leisure Pro isn't such a good deal when they become an authorized dealer. You want to guess why? I bet it has something to do with minimum advertised pricing policies.

If you call LP and talk with them they will usually deal on price. I would not be surprised if LP would knock $100 off the price.

---------- Post added June 26th, 2013 at 11:20 AM ----------

That shop has been around since 1954 so they must have enough support from enough divers to get along ok.

I would be surprised if it was the same owner. After all if they have been around since 1954 the owner would be close to 80 now.

 

[abyss_scuba]

Here is how I handle gear that if your gear is not part of my rental fleet or purchased somewhere else. If I sell you a piece of gear and that gear does not function in a manner that makes your class easier then I will redo the class with you at your convenience at no charge to you. If you insist on using gear that you purchased, borrowed, found , whatever and you cannot do the class we have gear at the pool you can use. If you insist on continued use of your gear and you cannot finish then you must pay for a make up session prior to the next class so as not to hold the other students up.

I had one gentleman come in with a Zeagle BC, While this is a great bc it was the wrong bc for him. Since he had purchased it somewhere else I offered him the choice of using my gear or his whichever he wanted. 3 years later this student has purchased a complete set of gear from me because he found out that the Zeagle was too heavy and bulky for travel. His son now buys his gear from me. And we have an agreement, his son who has gone back to the same dive shop for 3 years is working his way up the ranks, the son does all his advanced training with this shop because he stays there for the summer, great to be him, but they purchase all their educational materials from me so that they can study before they arrive. I don't want to sell you something today, I want to sell your children something for their children. Long term respect is much better than a short term sale any day.