what makes a diving agency a diving agency?

[Capt Jim Wyatt]

I will happily agree that Global Underwater Explorers is not an "agency." I choose to describe it as the worlds largest, most capable dive team.

I do not agree. The reason I disagree is because GUE trains and certifies divers at various levels, including entry level open water. They issue certification cards as proof of training and competence.

On the other hand the Woodville Karst Plains Project (WKPP) divers are all GUE certified divers. I do agree their team members and their projects are cutting edge on the exploration side.

I know many GUE certified divers whose affiliation with GUE ended the moment they were issued a C-Card.

 

[boulderjohn]

Would someone please post a definition of the word "agency" that excludes UTD and GUE but includes PADI, NAUI, SSI, IDEA, PSAI, NSS-CDS, SDI, TDI, IANTD, ANDI, ...?

 

[Allison Finch]

Great divers come from all types of programs.

Our shop has been teaching diving since 1972, including the local university academic diving program-- certified over five thousand students. We have fifteen instructors, including six course directors and four cave instructors.

As other posters have stated on this forum, GUE and UTD are not agencies by definition, they are more akin to regional dive clubs (there are others like them as well). We do not agree with the intent of GUE's teaching standards, which are more inline with indoctrination than that of instruction which results in independent thinking divers.

My personal teaching philosophy is best represented by the NAUI standards; 70% of my new students go on to advanced ratings.

Uh oh........

Just started this thread, which is very long. I will now sit back with a bucket of popcorn and a sixpack and watch the fur fly. This ought to be good!!

 

[Thalassamania]

No. It has instructors that train divers, those divers earn certification, that certification is internationally recognised. Regardless of what else it does, or what it's certification requirements may be, it IS an agency.

Uh oh........ Just started this thread, which is very long. I will now sit back with a bucket of popcorn and a sixpack and watch the fur fly. This ought to be good!!

While I think it should be clear that GUE and UTD are agencies, that is more based on the concept that I know one when I see one rather than my ability to define one. For example: the University of California is clearly NOT an agency, but it trains and certifies divers and instructors at different levels and issues a certification card that is recognized world wide.

 

[boulderjohn]

While I think it should be clear that GUE and UTD are agencies, that is more based on the concept that I know one when I see one rather than my ability to define one. For example: the University of California is clearly NOT an agency, but it trains and certifies divers and instructors at different levels and issues a certification card that is recognized world wide.

You did not specify which school. The first three I checked do all offer scuba certification. Those certifications were through PADI, NAUI, and SSI (in the order I checked them).

 

[Thalassamania]

You did not specify which school.

when used without any further specification is taken to mean the Berkeley campus.

The first three I checked do all offer scuba certification. Those certifications were through PADI, NAUI, and SSI (in the order I checked them).

I assume you searched for: "University of California diving certification." When I search for "University of California diving certification", the first hit is for: UC Berkeley - Scientific Diving Program, a site that says, somewhat confusingly, "The Diving Safety Program provides opportunities for students, faculty, and staff to pursue SCUBA certification or a scientific diver permit."

More typical of the programs is a statement like this one on the UCLA course description: "The course is based on the American Academy of Underwater Sciences (AAUS) Standards in order to dive under the auspices of UCLA or any other AAUS Organizational Members like the California Science Center, Scripps Institute of Oceanography, UCSB, etc. In order to be fully certified as an AAUS/UCLA scientific diver, already certified divers must complete a check-out open water scuba dive with the DSO and at least 11 additional dives under the direction of the DSO or a delegate for a total of at least 12 open water dives. Depending on the individual diver's ability, additional dives might be required for those divers. Divers must demonstrate adequate scuba skills, knowledge of the local diving environment, successfully complete ALL pool work, lectures, and pass a written final exam. See below list of requirements for specific details. Upon successful completion of the course and an additional 50 logged dives, divers will be eligible for a NAUI Master Diver Certification, NAUI's highest non-instructional certification." (bolding added).

About the same thing is true in all the U.C. programs that I've worked with: Berkeley, Davis, Scripps, Santa Barbara, Santa Cruz, and Los Angeles. I still often get tanks filled and get on dive boats with my Berkeley Card, circa 1973, that has no mention of any recreational agency on it, yet has been accepted everywhere I've traveled.

 

[boulderjohn]

I took a bit of digging into the program, but I finally learned tha the initial certification is from NAUI. After that, they work n the scientific diving certification.

 

[rakpix]

While I think it should be clear that GUE and UTD are agencies, that is more based on the concept that I know one when I see one rather than my ability to define one. For example: the University of California is clearly NOT an agency, but it trains and certifies divers and instructors at different levels and issues a certification card that is recognized world wide.

That argument sounds awfully familiar. Did you serve for a time on the Supreme Court of the United States?

 

[paolov]

Would someone please post a definition of the word "agency" that excludes UTD and GUE but includes PADI, NAUI, SSI, IDEA, PSAI, NSS-CDS, SDI, TDI, IANTD, ANDI, ...?

off topic post(semantics) : i think its not the word "agency" the key is "accredited" agency as recognized by the LDS/person/dive leader. "accredited" being the the key word in the list of agencies to be recognized as such to join the group.

 

[boulderjohn]

off topic post(semantics) : i think its not the word "agency" the key is "accredited" agency as recognized by the LDS/person/dive leader. "accredited" being the the key word in the list of agencies to be recognized as such to join the group.

OK, so what do you mean by accredited? I know what that means in the academic world--I have even served on accreditation committees examining applications. Accreditation means there is an accrediting agency (ironic choice of words, huh?) with identified standards. Since there is no such thing for scuba, are you saying that the shop that decides what it will accept is the accrediting agency? If so, then they need tom publish their standards.