what makes a diving agency a diving agency?

[leabre]

As other posters have stated on this forum, GUE and UTD are not agencies by definition, they are more akin to regional dive clubs (there are others like them as well). We do not agree with the intent of GUE's teaching standards, which are more inline with indoctrination than that of instruction which results in independent thinking divers.

I can see how someone might look at a UTD/GUE diver and deem him/her inflexible (or incapable of independent thinking) but that is the wrong way to look at it. Such divers think quite a bit. It's just that they tend to think alike and more consistent with each other and that uniformity provides strength to the team and adds value to the global network -- that one can join like-trained divers anywhere and have a functional team that is on the same page with one another, more or less. More so than with any two PADI/NAUI divers produced by different instructors even in the same city -- anecdotal observations here

I can see the contrast implication that those who are NAUI/PADI trained are far more flexible and can have differing instruction, equipment, or even knowledge impartation being the ones able to think because they reason for themselves what is best, etc as opposed to "a doctrine" (that is best for the team/group).

I can see those two things, but both are the wrong way to look at it. My definition of "thinking" though, might be different than Moonglow's.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

I just noticed this after reading this last post that quoted the now MIA Moonglow.

Do independent thinking divers blindly follow a DM?

Do they allow an instructor to just hand them a weight belt saying "here, this should do it" and just accept that?

Do independent thinking divers allow a shop or instructor to get away with not showing them how to assist a buddy or another diver before turning them loose on the diving world?

Do independent thinking divers allow themselves to be talked into the most expensive gear when they only plan on diving once a year on vacation?

Do independent thinking divers allow a DM, Guide, or other so-called pro to plan their dives for them with little or no input from the divers themselves?

Do independent thinking divers not look at the benefits that some of the "non-agencies" have brought to the community because one man said some things that pissed people off?
That is probably the funniest thing I see about people being pissed off at GUE,UTD, etc. Who gives a crap what GI said? He's one man. Not Christ, not Moses, not Buddha, not Mohammed. One man who happens to do some pretty extreme stuff and says things that piss people off sometimes. Get over it.

Do independent thinking divers allow a shop or instructor to dictate what gear they will use, who they will dive with, where they will dive, when they will dive, and what they can say as it relates to their own feelings and beliefs?

No they don't. And those that do are in no way independent THINKING divers. And in fact they are worse than any type of so-called indoctrinated divers.

 

[leabre]

Wow, Jim! I'd say you put into words the best way to sum up that thinking/non-thinking tangeant crystal clear.

 

[chrpai]

Regarding gear, yeah, you're pretty well there. Which is a huge step, since most folks try to make their cobbled-together whatever-style gear work, which usually results in a compromise that will not work. You're ahead of the game.

And solo diving? Lol. Not for me, but as long as you're trained, equipped, comfortable and within personal limits, who am I to say anything?

I know... I am a bit of a dichotomy. I'm somewhat trained (not formally)... certainly equipped, comfortable and within my limits. I guess I'm at a bit of a fork in the road where on one hand I like the concepts taught and the skills required to be demonstrated and the effective use of team skills..... but then still wonder why can't I apply this to self reliance when needed?

Guess it's a Texas free spirit thing.

 

[supergaijin]

I posted this story in the Instructor to Instructor forum already, but it seems to fit here. This past weekend I was at an ocean conservation conference, and one of the speakers told a similar story. He was on a boat for a 5-day trip in Australia (this was quite a while ago, so current restrictive Australian laws were not in play), and the captain demanded to see his certification card. He explained that his father had taught him how to dive (starting when he was 7 years old), and in the roughly 20 years since then, he had completed thousands of dives, but he had never gotten certified. Sorry, said the captain. No certification, no diving. The diver was resigned to a ruined trip, but fortunately some of the crew members convinced the captain to make an exception in this special case.

That diver's name is Jean Michel Cousteau.

When he got home he want to PADI and got certified so that it wouldn't happen again.

Stupid Aussies

 

[rakpix]

I will happily agree that Global Underwater Explorers is not an "agency." I choose to describe it as the worlds largest, most capable dive team. We recognize some members as experts in education, others as innovative conservation advocates, and still more as leading explorers in the most challenging environments on Earth. Your interaction with a training agency ends the moment you fully demonstrate a certain standard-of-competence. With GUE, that is only the beginning ...

 

[TSandM]

There is so much truth to that, rakpix!

 

[Pullmyfinger]

Well put rakpix,

I'm going to put a part of that in my signature line.

-Mitch

 

[Dave1981]

I will happily agree that Global Underwater Explorers is not an "agency." I choose to describe it as the worlds largest, most capable dive team. We recognize some members as experts in education, others as innovative conservation advocates, and still more as leading explorers in the most challenging environments on Earth. Your interaction with a training agency ends the moment you fully demonstrate a certain standard-of-competence. With GUE, that is only the beginning ...

No.

It has instructors that train divers, those divers earn certification, that certification is internationally recognised.

Regardless of what else it does, or what it's certification requirements may be, it IS an agency.

 

[The Chairman]

Is there a regulatory something that oversees the diving agencies

Scuba diving has been self regulated here in the US. That varies from country to country. So far, it has served the industry well and I hope we can continue to keep government interference to a minimum.

That being said, there is a common mentality among many dive shops and instructors that states "If I don't sell it, teach it or dive it, then it must be crap!" They often take offense when others don't blindly agree with them and see it as "appalling" when others have the temerity to call them on their bias.

ScubaBoard recognizes all agencies and encourages them and their instructors to participate here in a friendly and professional manner. That would include GUE, NAUI and UTD. I was careful to list them in alphabetical order to eliminate any possible appearance of favoritism. I am not officially affiliated with any of these agencies though I have been called GUE's unofficial strokesperson after appearing in one of their promotional videos.

If you feel that any particular post violates our goal to further the knowledge and enjoyment of scuba for all divers and those interested in diving with a fun and informative approach, then by all means use the "Report Post" function found at the bottom of each and every post. Moderators will evaluate each reported post and make a decision about how to handle it. Simply disagreeing with a post is not a sufficient reason to report it. Disagreeing with a thread that does not support your bias is also not a valid reason to close or delete the thread.