what makes a diving agency a diving agency?

[OldNSalty]

I am going to derail the thread for a bit and ask someone to correct my ignorance. I do not hold any certs from GUI, UTD or any of the other more tech agencies –yet. I have done some reading on the topics, I have picked some gear configurations based on what I have read and tried them out. So far, things gel with me and I see where they are sound in their approach. Chrpai’s comment (#93) makes me think that NACD and GUE and UTD are perhaps different in their approaches? Would this be accurate? Is NACD part of an anti-DIR side of cave diving? What would an anti-DIR cave diver be-an open water diver? I am confused. I didn’t think such creatures existed or lived long in the cave world.

 

[PfcAJ]

Cave diving does not equal DIR diving.

You can be a cave diver and not be DIR, you can be DIR and not be a cave diver. You can be an NACD member and be or not be DIR, too.

NACD is not a DIR oriented agency, not in the slightest. But I don't think 'they' are 'anti-DIR' and more than they are 'pro-DIR'. The instructors have a lot of freedom in what they teach as far as equipment and procedures. Some of this may (or may not) differ dramatically from DIR, GUE, and/or UTD.

All kinds of creatures exist in the cave world

 

[OldNSalty]

I am so stumbling around in the dark here and need to do some more reading. DIR, GUE, UTD, NACD...anyone have a Venn diagram?

 

[PfcAJ]

I'll just send you a PM

Its le complicated.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Is NACD part of an anti-DIR side of cave diving? What would an anti-DIR cave diver be-an open water diver? I am confused. I didn’t think such creatures existed or lived long in the cave world.

Short answer is I don't think any agency is anti-DIR ... I think some instructors are. And the reasons for that would depend on the instructor. Some are personal. Some are political. Some are because it affects their business. And some is due simply to a sense of "tribalism".

None of my tech training was through either GUE or UTD. The bulk of it was through NAUI. My cave training was NSS-CDS. Some of my trimix training, and my sidemount training, were IANTD. And in none of that did I detect anything remotely resembling anti-DIR ... I would've sought another instructor immediately if I'd detected any, because I don't have time or patience for that ... it's not what I signed up for. This past trip to Florida the people I dived with were GUE trained ... and we dived together very nicely. The mindset, commitment to team, and navigation protocols weren't identical but were close enough to be compatible. More importantly, we had a great time diving together.

What it really boils down to is that it doesn't really matter what initials are on your cert card. What matters is how you dive, and how compatible your diving style and goals are to those of the people you dive with. And what matters the most is attitude ... which are more often than not related to ego and shop politics. It's the major reason why I won't teach for a shop ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[50Fathom]

50Fathom- It's almost like you were talking right at me as I'm guessing I'm the 1 person who would pony up for a local fundies class. If not, then there must be two of us.

My rig is mostly compliant. Helps with that solo dive I did yesterday. (I can hear you screaming now!)

Oddly enough, I wasn't thinking of you, but since you mention it, I recall conversations and comments that showed you are interested, and you are only one person, so guess it kind of applies, lol.

If there were two or three of you guys geographically, we could make it work. As it is, we're a couple short. Oh well. In time, we might find another.

Regarding gear, yeah, you're pretty well there. Which is a huge step, since most folks try to make their cobbled-together whatever-style gear work, which usually results in a compromise that will not work. You're ahead of the game.

And solo diving? Lol. Not for me, but as long as you're trained, equipped, comfortable and within personal limits, who am I to say anything?

 

[boulderjohn]

Does Mr TSandM know about this

He was probably there.

Cave diving does not equal DIR diving.

You can be a cave diver and not be DIR, you can be DIR and not be a cave diver. You can be an NACD member and be or not be DIR, too.

NACD is not a DIR oriented agency, not in the slightest. But I don't think 'they' are 'anti-DIR' and more than they are 'pro-DIR'. The instructors have a lot of freedom in what they teach as far as equipment and procedures. Some of this may (or may not) differ dramatically from DIR, GUE, and/or UTD.

My cave training was from NSS-CDS, with the same instructor as Bob. On the first day of class he had me assemble my gear and explain why it was what it was. I assembled it in the UTD/DIR fashion in which I had been trained. He was fine with all of it. He did not do it all the same way, and he explained why he did what he did. You would have to really know what you were looking for to spot the differences between us.

My UTD instructor's original training and certification was through TDI. The instructor who certified him, a TDI instructor, was 100% DIR. (He actually works for the owner of GUE.) My original tech training was thus also TDI in name, but thoroughly DIR in approach. I actually asked TDI headquarters about this while it was happening, and they said they had no problem with that.

I later returned to TDI for my advanced trimix work. My TDI instructor for that knew very little about DIR. He had never heard of UTD. Once again, you would have had to know what you were looking for to spot the differences between us. Conversations with the other technical divers on the boats with us during my training revealed that most of them knew little about DIR and really could not care less. Once again, they looked pretty much like me, both in gear and performance.

There are differences, and now that I am no longer a member of UTD, I have adopted some of the different approaches I learned from others. If I go diving with DIR people, those differences would be very minor and would not produce a hiccup in our planning and performance.

 

[Searcaigh]

All kinds of creatures exist in the cave world

Like ScubaSam


Corrected the spelling of exist .... assuming that is what you meant

 

[Cyprian]

This troll however did create some really good reading so it can be seen as a positive (for everybody but the people that get trained by the narrow minded shop in TX that has an apparent hate on for GUE and UTD).

Good point, Steve.

And I do see this as a positive given my standpoint as a TX diver that is working on creating a GUE community here. I hope a few, or more than a few local divers read this and gain interest.

I'm not sounding my own accolades here, but when I first started seeking out other divers for a DFW centric club I tentatively threw GUE into the mix. The result was actually surprising. I started getting emails from people saying "I'm all for GUE, and surprised that it hasn't caught on more around here." That was actually pretty much a direct quote from my teammate, Korvette on SB, but this was the general statement in all the emails. So all it took was someone to speak out.

Fast forward a few months and we have 10 people that are either already GUE trained or heading down the training path. Oh and just to throw this out there, 3 of the GUE trained divers, who happen to be taking more GUE classes soon, are all PADI MSDT and actively teach PADI classes.

Safe dives,

Cyp

 

[boulderjohn]

... 3 of the GUE trained divers, who happen to be taking more GUE classes soon, are all PADI MSDT and actively teach PADI classes.

The two UTD instructors in Colorado are also PADI instructors. The only GUE instructor in Colorado is a PADI and NAUI instructor as well. GUE as an organization is headquartered in two dive shops in Florida, both owned by the owner of GUE. Both shops offer two kinds of instruction: GUE and PADI.