Scuba Shack's Boat Get Wet Sinks in Key Largo

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Here is where I am confused/asking for info:

1) Back near the beginning of the thread, I had (privately) found a USCG Documented "Get Wet" and ascertained from the information therein that it was not the "Get Wet" that sunk. I couldn't find the sunken "Get Wet" in the CG Documented vessel records. (Which could simply mean it was an un-documented vessel - this is different from being Inspected for Passengers or un-inspected, as far as I understand.)

2) The thread moved along, and in post #88 Wookie brought up some CG reports showing problems with a Documented "Get Wet."

3) Since to me it looked to me like he might be referring to the USCG Documented "Get Wet," and not the sunken "Get Wet," I questioned it. As a result, in post #96, Wookie confirmed that he had originally been looking at data for the "other" "Get Wet" and so the data he had brought up in post #88 did NOT apply to the sunken "Get Wet." (He then edited post #88 to add the correction.)

4) Also in post #96, Wookie posted a link to some CG contact records for the "correct," sunken "Get Wet."

5) I looked at those and saw data for an incident in August of 2010 "Involved in a Marine Casualty" (but no more detail.)

6) In post #97 mike_posted about a record of a hole in the boat that needed to be patched, but I did not see that on the sunken "Get Wet's" records. I want to know if that was from the "wrong" "Get Wet," or if it's from the sunken one, where was that data found?

7) I don't have post numbers, but I think some other references to CG-identified problems were made later on, and I have never been sure which "Get Wet" they referred to, and if they refer to the sunken one, where did the data originate (because I wanted to look at it).

I'm still not sure.

Blue Sparkle
I don't see any Florida registration numbers on the pics of the Scuba Shack Get Wet. Doesn't that mean it must be a documented vessel, or operating illegally with no reg/doc? I was under the impression all vessels had to be either state-registered, or USCG documented. The vessel status is confusing...
 
**SHAKES HEAD**

I guess I need more coffee.


re reading that I think I thought the 10/8/2010 and the 8/10/2010 were seen as the "same date". same number s yes... but clearly not the same date. Must have mis-read that. :facepalm:

That's 'cause your mask is upside down. :snicker:
 
I don't see any Florida registration numbers on the pics of the Scuba Shack Get Wet.


that's because it's not registered with the state of Florida. :D



Doesn't that mean it must be a documented vessel, or operating illegally with no reg/doc? I was under the impression all vessels had to be either state-registered, or USCG documented. The vessel status is confusing...


It's registered. Look at the links I posted above for the boat from the USCG database. The registration is direct with the USCG.

It's registration number is CG48687572368. If it was registered with Florida, that number would have been prefixed with a FL instead of CG.
 
I don't see any Florida registration numbers on the pics of the Scuba Shack Get Wet. Doesn't that mean it must be a documented vessel, or operating illegally with no reg/doc? I was under the impression all vessels had to be either state-registered, or USCG documented. The vessel status is confusing...

Every vessel, documented or not, must have FL numbers if they operate in the waters of the State of Florida. It's the law. Now, I don't post my FL numbers because I have the name of the vessel on each bow in 6" letters, along with the stern in 12" letters, along with the hailing port on the stern in 2" letters in accordance with USCG regulations. If I had a international ticket, I would have to put my IMO numbers on each side and on the roof in 12" numbers. If I ONLY had FL numbers, they would have to be in 2" letters/numbers on the bow. Regardless of the status of my FL numbers, I have to place my FL registration sticker on the port wheelhouse window right where I have my Apple Computer sticker. I don't. Vessels under 5 tons (like my dingy) are titled by the state. Vessels over 5 tons that are not documented are also titled.

There are many confusions in this thread. I'll try to start explaining them, although it has nothing to do with either of the "Get Wet's".

A vessel under 5 tons gross may not be documented. Documentation is like a title to a car. It follows the vessel forever until it is no longer documented. If there is a loan on the vessel, it is listed on the documentation certificate. Documentation is renewed every year, and any changes to the documentation must be approved by the first preferred ships mortgage holder. If I wish to change my vessel from commercial to recreational, the first preferred ship's mortgage holder must authorize it. A privately owned vessel, regardless of size, does not need to be documented, unless the owner wants to, or wants to take out a loan. No commercial vessels are undocumented. The documentation number must be permanently embossed in one of a few places. One of those places may be the crash bulkhead (required on a passenger vessel), on the engineroom bulkhead, or on the transom. Both of the "Get Wet's" would have been documented at one time.

Tonnage. Tonnage falls into 3 categories. First is displacement tonnage, which is only important if a vessel has a stability letter. Displacement tonnage is not noted anywhere. It's what the vessel actually weighs, or the amount of water it displaces. Displacement tonnage means nothing except to a travel lift operator and the marine architect. There are no regulatory drivers for displacement tonnage, and no one really knows what theirs is when you get into big boats. The second is net tonnage, which is also a worthless number. Each documentation certificate has the net tonnage of the vessel listed. It's the most a vessel could ever possibly displace with a full load of fuel, water, cargo, passengers, cars, etc. It is purely a calculated number based on the shape of the hull and means nothing to anyone. Gross tonnage is what drives regulations. When I said 5 tons above, it means 5 gross tons. Gross tonnage is a derived number based on 1869 rules for how many bales of cotton a vessel can carry. Really. Many spaces are exempt from the rules, and there are a bunch of tricks for exempting spaces from tonnage. Gross tonnage means everything to the Captain and the USCG, and it isn't even a real number. There are likely less than 100 folks in the USA that can calculate gross tonnage, and maybe 10 that can do it well enough to issue a tonnage certificate. The rules are onerous, complicated, and make no sense to anyone. I've seen 300 foot supply or anchor handlers in the Gulf that are 99 ton vessels. The Spree is a 99 ton vessel. We just squeaked in last time we were measured. Further, divide gross tonnage into registered tonnage (USA only) and International tonnage (ITC, or International Tonnage Convention). Spree has a dual tonnage certificate, because Registered tonnage isn't honored anywhere except the USA. So, the Spree is 99 GRT (Gross Registered Tons) and 141 GT-ITC (Gross Tons, International Tonnage Convention), or more commonly, just GT. A vessel below 100 GRT is allowed to be operated by a captain with a 100 ton license, does not need to meet any fire wall requirements, does not need an engineroom firefighting CO2 system, and is grandfathered forever for those requirements. There are lots of other gotchas, but those are the biggies.

Now, the difference between inspected and non-inspected. Inspected means you get the USCG to come and have a gander at your boat every year, every time you make a change to the configuration, and every 2 years you get to haul out and he can take a peek at the hull from the outside, including running gear and welds and through hulls etc. If you are on an international route, that changes to every year. Nothing is off limits to the inspector. A captain or owner who is trying to be proactive will find out what this years trouble spots are and prepare that part for inspection before the inspector ever shows up. This years critical push on aluminum boats with fresh water tanks integral to the hull is pitting in the fresh water tanks. There are a rash of aluminum boats getting their water tanks replaced right now because of pitting in those tanks. Last year it was corrosion under the battery boxes. Next year it may be electrical distribution panels. A vessel of over 100 tons may carry up to 12 passengers uninspected. It's an old holdover from the fruit ships that ran from New Orleans to Central America. They carried 12 passengers in relative luxury, but were mainly fruit carriers. There are at least 2 liveaboard dive vessels in Florida that operate under this exemption. One makes coastwise voyages (goes port to port within the USA), the other sails only internationally to the Bahamas. Vessels under 100 Gross Tons are limited to 6 passengers on a coastwise route or international route. I know of one liveaboard in this class in Florida. If you carry more than 6 passnegers and your vessel is under 100 tons, you're gonna have regular visits from the Coast Guard. We pay for this privilege, it isn't free. You may drop your COI (Certificate of Inspection) at any time, but if you ever want it back, you will have to bring the vessel up to standards as they are today.
 
Edited to add: I see that Wookie posted with some overlapping information as I was typing. He is more up on the issues as pertains to commercial vessels, so if I wrote anything contradictory (I have not fully read Wookie's post yet), then please take him as the authority.

You're looking at a different boat above.

The boat you have listed above in the link is this one. USCG CGMIX PSIX Vessel Details Page...

Okay, now all is explained. Even why I went to the wrong link. I mis-read post #96, where Wookie responds to my asking him if he had been speaking of the "wrong" Get Wet in post #88. He responds that yes, there are two different boats, and links to the CGMIX page for what I understood was the "right" boat, but which I now see could (and should) also be read the other way, i.e. "Yes, there are two boats, here is the link showing the other ("wrong") boat." I read it to be "Yes, there are two boats, here is the link showing the "right" boat." My mistake!

I appreciate you all taking the time to help me figure it out.

I don't see any Florida registration numbers on the pics of the Scuba Shack Get Wet. Doesn't that mean it must be a documented vessel, or operating illegally with no reg/doc? I was under the impression all vessels had to be either state-registered, or USCG documented. The vessel status is confusing...

I noticed that too. I'm less "up" on the regs for larger or commercial vessels, but typically with the boats I know, you either have state registration (then numbers and a decal on the bow, port and starboard), or you are federally (USCG) documented, and then you have your official numbers placed someplace "permanent" inside the boat, and may or may not need a state decal (some states still like to get their $$). I wasn't aware of any state registration (i.e. undocumented) boats that didn't need the numbers/sticker at the bow, port and starboard, but as I say, I'm not as familiar with commercial vessels, and also I don't know every state's rules in-depth.

Just so people know what we are talking about, here are some examples of state registered boats, with their bow numbers and decals (and a diagram that many states use showing their application).

boat 2.jpg

boat 1.jpg

boat decal.jpg

And here are some federally documented boats, with their official numbers "permanently" affixed somewhere inside the boat. As far as I know, these boats would not have state registration numbers on the bows (although they might have to have a decal in certain states). These are boats you can look up on the USCG site for documented vessels (whereas there is no central way I know of to look up state registered vessels - although some states do let you do that).

boat 3.jpg

boat 4.jpg

So since I did not find the "right" Get Wet on the Documented vessel look-up page, I presumed it was undocumented, but maybe it, too, is documented and I just didn't see it there? The only reason Documentation came into the thread (I believe) is that after I first read about the incident I went to look the vessel up, and I only saw another Get Wet, which is what prompted my question to Wookie around post #88. It was then determined that there are two Get Wets. I don't have the documentation number/record for the "right" Get Wet.

Separate from Documentation (and something I'm less well-versed on) is whether or not a boat is Inspected. I do know that a state registered vessel can be CG Inspected, so I presume you can have all four combinations (?) (i.e. Documented and Uninspected; Documented and Inspected; State registered and Uninspected; State Registered and Inspected.).

So I think that in addition to there being two Get Wets, with one being Documented and the other one being either state-registered or documented (I'm not sure at this point), we have people talking about one being inspected and one being uninspected (apparently having been taken out of Inspection).

Blue Sparkle
 
Separate from Documentation (and something I'm less well-versed on) is whether or not a boat is Inspected. I do know that a state registered vessel can be CG Inspected, so I presume you can have all four combinations (?) (i.e. Documented and Uninspected; Documented and Inspected; State registered and Uninspected; State Registered and Inspected.).

Blue Sparkle

I have never heard of an inspected vessel not being a commercial vessel, which must be documented. Do not confuse a inspected vessel (one issued a certificate of Inspection) with a vessel that has received a "courtesy inspection", those vessels get CG stickers too, and it drives me crazy.

There are different levels of courtesy inspection. Your local boys in blue from the local station will come (if you ask them to) and have a peek at your boat. They will look at the life jackets, fire extinguishers, cushions if used as floatation aids, etc. to make sure your boat is "safe". Then there is the fishing vessel inspection. Although not mandatory, if you don't have a fishing vessel inspection every so often, you won't get insurance on your fishing vessel. Then there is towing vessel inspections. Sector Key West just promulgated a crapload of rules for assistance towing and commercial towing (Towboat US and Seatow) that is really going to put them in a bind, including carrying portable bilge pumps with a 100 GPM capacity and 5 fire extinguishers. Some of these little towboats are 19 foot Carolina Skiffs painted red. Included in the rules is a mandatory voluntary inspection.
 
Wow, that says it all. I happen to own the rescue boat Visibility, We made a complete refund to our divers. We had just finished the first dive when we witnessed this tragic incident.

Interestingly, we tried to give a progress report to both the shop and motel but neither would speak to us. And they haven't yet.

That does not mean that is when it was processed through the charter's terminal. It seems you just want to stir things up so have fun.

Please, folks, take a time out for compassion, please???

copperhead is a friend of the family. In times like this, numbness, grief, and anger all war for a place in the family and friends' hearts. Sometimes what would otherwise be a slight-note-in-passing can trigger serious anger.

copperhead has perceived an injustice, and it is difficult for him to filter the facts through logic.

copperhead . . . as a friend of the family, at times like this, your duty is to help them to not turn mountains into molehills. You could help the family, by removing this niggle of irritation, by reiterating what Mike_S said in his post above. Encourage them to simply dispute it, as a "product not received / delivered" . . . The poor soul on the bank phone line doesn't need to hear the whole sordid tale.

Passing on lessons learned . . . . :)


Thank you Jax for being the first person to offer any compassion. Before I ever posted, it was already discussed with the family to dispute the charge. It was just heart breaking for him to go online and actually see the charge was there. Even more so after reading the post from conchrandy who is the captain of the rescue boat. It's seems funny that this captain could refund all his divers yet 16 days after Aimee's death they have not refunded on their own volition. Aimee's husband does not even know that I have posted to this board. Everything you said directly to me I have done. I was simply stating in my original post my feelings on the matter. It is other people who seemed to make more of it than I.

Scuba Steve- all I was doing was giving you a date, not trying to stir things up. And if you think this is fun then you are very warped indeed.

Lastly, I was very saddened to hear that the other diver had died. I will now add them to my prayers. I don't know the family circumstances for this person but I am sure there is family & friends mourning. So now we move on with learning what it looks like with a life without Aimee and telling her 3 year old daughter what a wonderful person her mother was and that she loved her very much. If you want to learn more about this amazing family visit Missing Aimee
 
:hugs:

Thank you Jax for being the first person to offer any compassion. Before I ever posted, it was already discussed with the family to dispute the charge. It was just heart breaking for him to go online and actually see the charge was there. Even more so after reading the post from conchrandy who is the captain of the rescue boat. It's seems funny that this captain could refund all his divers yet 16 days after Aimee's death they have not refunded on their own volition. Aimee's husband does not even know that I have posted to this board. Everything you said directly to me I have done. I was simply stating in my original post my feelings on the matter. It is other people who seemed to make more of it than I.

copperhead, perhaps with understanding may come condolence.

The shop closed down right after the sinking, I believe? That means there is no one there to do anything. I speculate, of course.
 
I have never heard of an inspected vessel not being a commercial vessel, which must be documented. Do not confuse a inspected vessel (one issued a certificate of Inspection) with a vessel that has received a "courtesy inspection", those vessels get CG stickers too, and it drives me crazy.

I worked on a vessel that was (and is) state registered (Maine, complete with numbers/decal port and starboard), and was also CG Inspected (with a COI). I was aboard the day we had the inspection, and I don't believe it was a "courtesy" inspection - I thought it was required in order to keep our rating (?). If I remember correctly the COI stipulated number of passengers, where we could operate, etc.

I don't know how common this is, but I used it as the basis for thinking all four combinations must be possible.
 
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