Certified and Dangerous. Where do we go from here?

[warmwaterturner]

You are to be commended for recognizing that more help is needed. +1 for taking what you already have learned and and enlisting more help. Good instructors with a love of the sport who want to help folks to become safe divers are what is needed here. The "get'em certified" approach is dangerous and all too common.

I don't understand what the "navigational swim" on the second day was all about. Was she expected to lead the dive????? I also would like to observe the comment "On the drive home, I had to tell her that I didn't feel comfortable diving with her and I wasn't sure if I ever really would."
This seems a bit harsh and not a good starting point for learning to be a better diver......but that's just my opinion.

 

[emoreira]

I'm not an instructor, but I think it's a wrong choice to make OW check-out dives in places where it's deeper than the intended depth the divers should go.
Quarries are not good places to make check-out dives. As a new diver you are surely bad with buoyancy. You will go deeper of what you have planned and if you touch the bottom, you will rise a cloud of mud and visibility will turn to zero. There are some dive schools that place a semifloating platform at 8 to 10 meters depth, so as the students can knee in it.
My first check-out dive was in a sea place where depth was 10 meters, and the first thing we did was to knee in the sand bottom, so we couldn't go deeper and just disappear in the darkness.
From now on, I would suggest to go on diving. Do not dive you and your wife alone. Dive with a dive buddy with more experience and so your wife.
Join a dive club with pool, so as you can get confident in the water.
Rent gear for the pool and practice buoyancy. Don and Doff your gear underwater under the supervision of an instructor, so as you get confident with your behaivour underwater.

 

[ScooterTDI]

Keep practicing in pools also and, if you have the opportunity, take some videos of yourselves. It's a lot easier to explain (to your wife for example) the problems with kick styles when you can actually see yourself doing them wrong (and right).

When working on her kicks I did try showing her a video of herself and it did help her see the mechanics of what she was doing wrong.

After the dive (particularly the Nav dive) did the instructor do any debrief to discuss what happened?

We never received a debrief other than to repeatedly tell us how great we are doing

I really wanted some direction during the training. I know I'm not doing anything absolutely perfectly, so I feel like the instructor should be telling me how to improve even if I did do a reasonably good job at a particular skill.

Have the DM do a couple dives working with the two of you completely apart. It is often easier to take constructive criticism from a professional than it is from a spouse (trust me).

This is a good idea, but I really feel uncomfortable leaving my wife in the hands of a DM. I know that my presence may be a hinderance to her learning, but after having to rescue her myself after a DM lost her, I feel pretty apprehensive about it.

Don't dismiss your wife as a dive buddy so quickly, the task loading of a new diver is extensive and much will be missed. After a few more dives, she will get more comfortable and be a better diver, as will you.

I really don't want to. I know that it is very well possible that she will surpass me in diving skill eventually, but after seeing her panic several times I am a little scared to entrust her with my life while diving. I worry that she will panic when I need her most or that I won't be able to keep her from hurting herself if she panics again. If I could see her get close to panic and avert it just once, I'd feel a lot better.

Sad to read stories like this ... because the unfortunate fact is that when people are uncomfortable diving, they find reasons not to do it ... and over time, other activities come along that cause you to decide to never do it again.

I do feel like I must consciously force myself to continue diving. I know that at some point it will stop being stressful and start being fun. I know that we will regret it if we give up now.

To answer the "what next" question ... my advice would be to do some remedial work in a pool. First off, don't hire the same instructor ... or even the same dive shop, because they apparently allow their instructors to qualify students who aren't comfortable with what they're doing yet.

You needed more pool time before your checkout dives ... and you still do. Find an instructor or DM who is willing to take you back to confined water and let both of you get more comfortable with those basic skills. Find someone who can help your wife work on a decent fin kick ... it'll make her diving experience a lot easier when she develops a motor that's running smoothly. Then once you're comfortable with the basics, try a supervised dive or two in the quarry.

Yea, I feel like we need to go back to the pool as well. We need to be able to do the skills in a comfortable environment before we go to an uncomfortable one (cold and relatively low vis quarry)

Get the basics squared away first ... then move on to the next class. And for goodness sakes, shop around for a new instructor ... from your description it sounds like you didn't buy training so much as just go through the motions and collect a c-card.

I don't blame the instructor. I felt that he really wanted to be able to do more with us but he was just constrained by the program and likely pressure from the dive shop. He did spend a considerable amount of time trying to help us work through the mental aspects of learning to dive. The dive shop doesn't have their own pool and apparently it costs them quite a bit to buy time at the local indoor pool. I think I'll call around to any of the other dive shops and see if they have their own pool so we won't be too rushed trying to work through skills.

Thanks everyone for the advice. I feel quite a bit better just discussing it with others.

 

[fnfalman]

Go back to the pool, especially if you have access to a large Olympic or half-Olympic size pool and the two of you keep working on your skills. Sounds like you're more quickly adapted to the water environment than your wife.

 

[ScooterTDI]

I don't understand what the "navigational swim" on the second day was all about. Was she expected to lead the dive????? I also would like to observe the comment "On the drive home, I had to tell her that I didn't feel comfortable diving with her and I wasn't sure if I ever really would."
This seems a bit harsh and not a good starting point for learning to be a better diver......but that's just my opinion.

We each had our turn at leading a navigational swim. One person uses the compass to keep a heading and the other was responsible for monitoring depth and counting out the kicks. We were supposed to go out from the platform 10 complete kick cycles along a heading and then turn and take a reciprocal heading back to the platform. The DM followed along from a short distance and the instructor was kneeling on the platform waiting for us to return.

That comment was a bit harsh, but she was excited and happy that we were now "divers". I had to give her a little dose of reality because she was talking about returning to the quarry next weekend (just the two of us) to practice. I had to let her know that I was not going to do that. Even with supervision, I am hesitant because it doesn't take long to put 10 ft between two people with the visibility at the quarry being only about 10 ft. its easy to lose someone.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

We each had our turn at leading a navigational swim. One person uses the compass to keep a heading and the other was responsible for monitoring depth and counting out the kicks. We were supposed to go out from the platform 10 complete kick cycles along a heading and then turn and take a reciprocal heading back to the platform. The DM followed along from a short distance and the instructor was kneeling on the platform waiting for us to return.

That comment was a bit harsh, but she was excited and happy that we were now "divers". I had to give her a little dose of reality because she was talking about returning to the quarry next weekend (just the two of us) to practice. I had to let her know that I was not going to do that. Even with supervision, I am hesitant because it doesn't take long to put 10 ft between two people with the visibility at the quarry being only about 10 ft. its easy to lose someone.

A little tip on practicing ... if your wife's keen on the idea, go along with it. But if possible, find a pool to practice in. I think she's got the right idea ... but it'll be easier working on her skills in confined water, rather than at the quarry. Also, getting some supervision would be an immense help.

Also, when swimming (as in at the quarry), go as slowly as possible. This will not only reduce the potential for losing each other, but it's a far more effective way to work on buoyancy control ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[ScooterTDI]

I am not sure if you have any travel plans. I will dive with you and your wife at no cost in Thailand. You only have to pay for your dives. The water is warm, so you have less wet suit and weight to deal with. Visibility varies from 20 to 75 feet, depending on the day, so you worry less about losing each other. There is plenty to see while you work on your buoyancy. You will never get back into diving if you dont enjoy it, and you clearly dont. I hope you can come here and enjoy it.

Finally, as much as I hate to suggest this, contact the certifying agency and make them aware of your experience. All certifying agencies want to know if instructors are certifying individuals that are not going to be safe divers. They all have internal quality control mechanisms.

Thank you for the offer, I really appreciate that you would be willing to help us out. We are going to Bonaire in about a month, but I think we will just stick to snorkeling. At this point, I'd rather snorkel and be relaxed on my vacation than dive and be stressed.

If I were to contact the certifying agency, I would only do so to express the inadequacy of the program rather than of the instructor. It almost seems that the program is set up to fail for many divers. I wonder if it has occured to the dive shops and certifying agencies that slower, more extensive, training might be more profitable for everyone because it will produce divers that are more inclined to stick with the sport.

 

[warmwaterturner]

"We each had our turn at leading a navigational swim. One person uses the compass to keep a heading and the other was responsible for monitoring depth and counting out the kicks. We were supposed to go out from the platform 10 complete kick cycles along a heading and then turn and take a reciprocal heading back to the platform. The DM followed along from a short distance and the instructor was kneeling on the platform waiting for us to return."

Wow - thanks for the explaination. I can't imagine a DM expecting a OW student who has not got depth, bouyancy or kick under control to run a compass course???? She should be focusing on the basics. Were you guys doing navigation at the same time as open water?

 

[ScooterTDI]

Wow, you guys are quick with the responses! I'm having a hard time keeping up with responses!

I'd advise you to go easy with trying to expedite your wife's entry into diving. Sometimes, the worst elements in a marriage seem to come out when a husband tries to help his wife along. If she's doing this because she really wants to, that's great. If she's doing it because you want her to or she thinks you'll be disappointed if she doesn't..... I only mention this because I've seen three couples split after certification and it was like watching a slow motion train wreck from orientation to checkouts. They were all qualified divers, though.

Very good advise. We are still in the first few years of marriage and I am still learning how to walk all of the fine lines that exist in a marriage.

Does she have issues swimming normally in a pool? Swimming with fins is a different movement than swimming without, but I've never heard of "stair stepping" movements. Even if she swam like she does in a pool without fins, she should still get forward movement, just less efficiently. For her not to go anywhere, there is a serious technique breakdown. Sounds like she's bending her knees far too much and trying to "push" with the fin. Are her legs not strong enough to move the fins normally? What type of fins are they? She might benefit from swimming laps with fins and a snorkel in a long pool, just to get that part down. Then, I'd say its back to the pool with a different instructor for some one on one focus on what her issues are.

She wasn't the best swimmer to begin with, but before we began training for diving, she completed a swimming class and that helped tremendously. The swimming class was actually much longer and involved much more pool time than the diving course. I wouldn't say she is a great swimmer now, but not horrible.

Your description of her fin kicking is exactly correct. Bending knees and pushing with the flat of the fin.

She is able to snorkel with fins and have decent kicking technique if she focuses on it, but as soon as another task is thrown on top of just kicking, she reverts to the stair-stepping or bicycle-riding.

Her legs aren't the strongest, but I think she should be able to kick properly without too much problems. She has gone with me on some pretty strenuous hikes up mountains and although she was pretty slow, I never had to carry her out. Fins are Cressi Frog Plus.

 

[parzdiver]

Thank you for the offer, I really appreciate that you would be willing to help us out. We are going to Bonaire in about a month, but I think we will just stick to snorkeling. At this point, I'd rather snorkel and be relaxed on my vacation than dive and be stressed.

You are going to a great place to get some training dives done. Much of the diving you can do in Bonaire can done with a hard bottom of 20-30 feet. As long as you don't go "over the wall" you cannot go deeper. You can hire a DM from any one of the shops to do a couple refresher dives. Be sure to indicate your limits and stick to them. With the warm clear water and a hard bottom, you will have a great opportunity to practice and increase your comfort.