What happened?

[RTodd]

This thread is basically off topic anyway so I am leaving the existing posts for now. But, don't even attempt to continue a discussion of "DIR" deep air because we will delete it in this forum. If the reasons for doing so are confusing to anyone, I would suggest posting in one of the other technical diving forums instead.

 

[OneBrightGator]

But my point is that should you decide to use Deep Air, it's doable/manageable within certain conditions and restraints --albeit still risky.

And still not DIR.

 

[rjack321]

And still not DIR.

That must be while they call you the Bright Gator :d

 

[rainman_02]

Interestingly, this serves as a perfect example of what should happen.

1) Thread starts (usually by a person looking for the DIR answer).
2) A few people provide answers.
3) When a non-DIR answer is provided, it is indicated as decidedly non-DIR. Continued postings of non-DIR answers get deleted/moved.
3a) Unless it is something open for discussion, such as what goes in each pocket, or what size light (primary or backup). Then discussion.


However, what I was seeing was just the standard "random poster clicks 'new posts' link, follows it, adds their $0.02 without realizing they're in the DIR sub-forum (since the warnings have disappeared), and posts non-DIR stuff that then causes gnashing of teeth."

 

[OneBrightGator]

But is there not a DIR answer to what goes in which pocket? Wouldn't pick-pocketing JJ, David Rhea, MHK, Danny, Bob, etc. provide a better DIR answer then Joe NewFundy or John NotDIR? What's there to talk about lights? 3C, LED preferred, alkalines for backup, HID with the appropriate burntime for primary. Just seems to me that there are already answers to all DIR questions and there are better places to find them then the internet.

 

[rjack321]

But is there not a DIR answer to what goes in which pocket? Wouldn't pick-pocketing JJ, David Rhea, MHK, Danny, Bob, etc. provide a better DIR answer then Joe NewFundy or John NotDIR? What's there to talk about lights? 3C, LED preferred, alkalines for backup, HID with the appropriate burntime for primary. Just seems to me that there are already answers to all DIR questions and there are better places to find them then the internet.

Generally that's all true. Although some of us supposedly DIR divers do ignore some pronoucements from on high - like the pocket contents bit. And some DIR folks still use 30/30 to 120ft despite it officially getting revised to a 100ft MOD.

There's room for discussion, just not about deep air. Deep being 3ATAs below recommended END, not say bending the guidelines a little and using EAN30 for a square dive to 110ft.

 

[Kevrumbo]

I hear JJ and Casey used deep air on the Wakulla connection last month... :mooner:

And of course they wouldn't do it on the Wakulla-Turner Connection or any deep/long Exploration Mission. Therefore to be consistent (and to cya potential liabilities) GUE as a certifying agency is always going to promote & hold to a no deep air advisory across all aspects of diving --Technical to Recreational; Overhead to Open Water. . .

If Deep Air is beyond your comfort level, DIR safety practices, and just plain good sense then fine . . .its still worth discussing why in this forum IMHO, from a "Lessons Learned" or "Boundary Event" perspective (whenever I get around to writing the full report on this Trip. . .)

 

[OneBrightGator]

Generally that's all true. Although some of us supposedly DIR divers do ignore some pronoucements from on high - like the pocket contents bit. And some DIR folks still use 30/30 to 120ft despite it officially getting revised to a 100ft MOD.

There's room for discussion, just not about deep air. Deep being 3ATAs below recommended END, not say bending the guidelines a little and using EAN30 for a square dive to 110ft.

So the only ambiguities are the minute details and there's really a lot of them to discuss? If 30/30 has been revised to a 100' MOD, then diving it to 120' is not DIR, period. If you can say that the location of a the handle on a reel makes it DIR or not DIR then diving a gas beyond the DIR limit certainly can't be considered DIR.

I enjoy reading the DIR forum, it is typically my first stop. I am always looking for new bits of info, but the hypocrisy grates on me at times. I also like it for the new "filter" that someone showed me.

 

[rjack321]

And of course they wouldn't do it on the Wakulla-Turner Connection or any deep/long Exploration Mission. Therefore to be consistent (and to cya potential liabilities) GUE as a certifying agency is always going to promote & hold to a no deep air advisory across all aspects of diving --Technical to Recreational; Overhead to Open Water. . .

If Deep Air is beyond your comfort level, DIR safety practices, and just plain good sense then fine . . .its still worth discussing why in this forum IMHO, from a "Lessons Learned" or "Boundary Event" perspective (whenever I get around to writing the full report on this Trip. . .)

WTF?? So now we get to read about how safe and in control your extensive DIR training made you and your team for deep air?? Oh phalease just put that trip report somewhere else.

 

[rjack321]

So the only ambiguities are the minute details and there's really a lot of them to discuss? If 30/30 has been revised to a 100' MOD, then diving it to 120' is not DIR, period. If you can say that the location of a the handle on a reel makes it DIR or not DIR then diving a gas beyond the DIR limit certainly can't be considered DIR.

I enjoy reading the DIR forum, it is typically my first stop. I am always looking for new bits of info, but the hypocrisy grates on me at times. I also like it for the new "filter" that someone showed me.

Hey I'm actually saying the minutia might be a bit bigger than you imagine. GUE used to teach 30/30 was the gas to use from 80 to 120ft. Unpon further reflection and maybe some accidents at ppO2s of 1.4, they revised their guidelines to 100ft. All fair enough.

But some people were trained the old way. They still use it the old way. That one facet of their dive is not exactly DIR as proscribed by the grand training council. Is 20ft enough to throw them under the bus? Not really IMO.

Top handle reels just don't work as well as "sidehandles". RTodd laid out some issues. My cave instructor had a few more tidbits and we compared and contrasted in cave class too. I came to the (theoretically educated) conclusion that sidehandles work better. So yes they are the DIR solution. If I had a buddy who just had to use a tophandle I don't think that one element would keep me from diving with them. At least not to start with and on an easy dive.