Seacraft GO! vs. Suex VR Voyager

[bradStyle]

Quieter is definitely an advantage - to me. I don't think I have ever heard anyone say "I wish my scooter were louder."

Having a cruise control is definitely nice. I thought the Go! had some way in its menus or a click combo to allow it to run with the trigger "locked", but I could be wrong. Regardless, it does not seem like a difficult problem to solve to fabricate some kind of simple thing to hold the trigger, if needed.

You talked about motor power lag and are attributing lag in the Go! to having a brushless motor. I don't think those are related.

A brushless motor seems like a clear advantage and undoubtedly contributes to the Go! having a longer run time.

Lag in delivery seems likely to be a designed-in characteristic of the Go!'s motor controller and firmware. It may even be adjustable. Seacraft puts a lot of stuff in their menu system to support changing the behavior of their scooters (in general - not sure exactly how they have the Go! setup).

What is your basis for saying the Suex has better or more robust construction? I know the Go! had one specific issue when they first came out where you could overtighten some part on the nose and break something. But, I believe they redesigned that and that problem is now gone. I haven't heard of other issues with the Go! lacking robustness. From what I know, Seacraft and Suex both produce very high quality DPVs.

Sorry for the delay in direct responses, we were entertaining out of town divers last week. I appreciate your feedback.

Call 'em crazy, but the shop that conducts my cave and tech training prefer louder scooters for team expeditions. YMMV. I'm not sure it would be better for me. Wildlife didn't seem to be too disturbed by the Suex XJ I trained on, unless I changed speeds. The sudden change in pitch appeared to freak the fish out a bit.

In reading through the Go usage instructions (Usage instructions – Seacraft Support Website) it does not appear there is any function to lock the trigger. A simple rubber band (EPDM 2-Inch Loop) might serve. A little ghetto, but might do the trick. I've got a bit of arthritis in my hands and wrists so a trigger lock may be a bigger deal to me than some.

After reading a bit more I agree, lag in delivery does not appear to be a function of a brushless motor. I am not optimistic that I would be able to modify the Go's behavior though (I'm not a big fan of probably or maybe). The slow ramp up to speed isn't particularly appealing to me, but I'm not a cross section of the population.

My comments regarding the construction comes from my own reading and observation so far based on limited information and anecdotes, and could be entirely off, so don't quote me. Looking at pictures side by side, and knowing what I do about Suex, if I were a betting man I'd bet on Suex to be a bit more stout, but it also weighs about five more pounds. Pros and cons.

people do note that the Seacraft's trigger and the lag are friction points. @bradStyle mentions Voyager - the travel version of the scooter with a smaller battery. That is, in part, why it has a lower runtime.

@bradStyle - do you have an option to try both scooters? Do you plan to travel with DPVs? What dealers / support do you have for the scooters in your area? Other points to consider:

- Trigger locks may lead to issues when you need to unlock and cannot for some reason. I have one on my SUEX but never use it.

- Brushless motors are more effective in general and the "lag" may be seen as a disadvantage or advantage depending on the diving you do and how long you plan to keep the scooter. Brushes on motors must be replaced at some point, but it is not the end of the game.

- Max speed becomes irrelevant at some point. There is only so muc thrust you need.

- Noise can be a benefit in some conditions where you need buddy awareness.

I'm hoping to go over to Playa del Carmen later this week to dive a Seacraft of some form or another. No Go's down here for tryout at this time. I will work to try out each specific unit before I buy. By the time my path crosses a Suex Voyager I will likely by back home in the Pacific Northwest, and I'm unlikely to get drysuit certification just to take one for a spin. If I'm going with a Voyager it will be purchased through 8 Diving just south of Seattle. If it's a Go I'm not sure who I'm buying it from. These DPVs will be largely used in Cozumel where my wife and I live in the wintertime, and then occasional use on other dive trips, which is why the Voyager is in consideration. If we do go with Suex, it's likely we'll also buy the Quantum heads in Mexico, and use the Voyager heads when we travel. Service options down here are ProTec for Seacraft and Zero Gravity for Suex.

I'm already familiar with Suex's trigger system and like it. A trigger lock is important to me as I've got some hand a wrist issues.

In talking to my instructors, they mention pros and cons of brushed v brushless which include that brushless involves more electronic components, which they view as its own *potential* disadvantage, maybe balancing out the disadvantage that brushes need replacement at some point too. I'm too new to this game to have an opinion there yet.

Thanks for the input.

 

[mr_v]

I am sure you'll be happy with either choice.

Brushes require replacements, but they are not that expensive. In terms of sound, it depends on your preference and how you dive. I dive mostly in overhead, and my rule is simple: I must see "your" light. If I hear your scooter, it is even better. You can certainly hear a SUEX ;-)

Tinkering with electronics may void warranty, so be aware...

 

[grantmac]

Brushless is absolutely not a reliability liability.

A shaft seal on the other hand....

 

[bradStyle]

Yesterday I went over to Playa del Carmen and hooked up with Jeb at ProTec to take a Seacraft Go out for a test spin at Cenote Jardín del Eden. We spent an hour scootering back and forth along the cavern line. He also brought the larger Seacraft Future along for comparison and I got to do one run on it as well. I learned a few things.

The Future was quieter in operation at comparable power output to the Go, which I think is a function of the larger propellor. In other words, the Go was louder because the propellor needed to spin faster in order to match the power output of the Future. I'm sure some of you engineering types can correct me here or explain it more accurately or eloquently. But it did make me wonder if the Go would still be quieter than the Suex VR which has a 25% larger propellor.

I learned that the Go does not have a bypass which the Suex models do.

Personally I did not like the power lag of the Go when first getting on the trigger. Takes about 4sec for it to spin up to whatever power setting it's at. It seems with the Future you can use software to reduce the lag, but there currently isn't a way to change that on the Go.

I also didn't like that if you get off the trigger for more than a few seconds (5-10, not sure exactly) it changes your power setting to zero, even when not in Student Mode. Some kind of built-in, non-disableable idiot proofing.

I wish there was a click combination that would serve as a trigger lock. A double click on the trigger you're not using will put it in Catch Up Mode (max power), a second double click reverts to the previous power setting.

Apart from those gripes, the thing is an absolute blast. Amazing size and weight to power output. Super maneuverable. I tried it at all speed levels. The battery does drain pretty quick on max power, but that's to be expected and it's right on the verge of being uncomfortable so I wouldn't expect to be using it all that often.

I can't wait to try out a Suex VR. Probably will be a while before I can get my hands on one but when I do I'll report back.

 

[Manatee Diver]

Personally I did not like the power lag of the Go when first getting on the trigger. Takes about 4sec for it to spin up to whatever power setting it's at. It seems with the Future you can use software to reduce the lag, but there currently isn't a way to change that on the Go.

That is one thing about the Go I really dislike, but for me that isn't a deal breaker as I want it as a tow scooter and on exit I'm not fighting my way against the flow through restrictions, where I am going to use max speed in bursts.

 

[bradStyle]

I've realized that there may be people tuning into this thread that don't care as much about travel-ability of these DPVs so I thought it would be useful to cross compare the Seacraft Go with both the Suex VR Quantum and Voyager. Here's a redesigned quick comparison chart.

 

[stuartv]

Personally I did not like the power lag of the Go when first getting on the trigger. Takes about 4sec for it to spin up to whatever power setting it's at.

4 seconds?!? That would be SUPER annoying! Possibly to the point of a dealbreaker, for me.

Some scootering scenarios that would be no issue at all. But, some scenarios - like scootering around inside a big wreck - involve getting on and off the trigger constantly. Especially when going really slow and navigating somewhat tight (for a diver with a scooter) conditions. In those scenarios, a 4 second delay every time between on and off the trigger would just be agonizing.

 

[Jollymon32]

I also wondered about those 4 seconds, because I have a Go and had not noticed this "lag".

So I fired it up and video'ed the scooter spool up from zero to full speed. The video is attached - turn up the volume, you can hear when full speed is reached.

And for shits and giggles I did the same on the Genesis, video attached.

The spool up indeed took close to 4 seconds. That is not to say you are not going prior to that, just that full RPM's do seem to take about the 4 seconds mentioned.

The Genesis was faster to go from zero to full RPM's.

Turns out I can't attach videos, here are the links to the videos on my dropbox:

Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

 

[grantmac]

The "spool up" on the Genesis is why I basically never unlock the trigger unless I'm clipping the scooter off. At least on my 1st generation it's far too slow.
Running the throttle with the trigger locked you get instant response.

If the Go only offered that sort of experience it would be a tough sell with me.

 

[bradStyle]

I also wondered about those 4 seconds, because I have a Go and had not noticed this "lag". So I fired it up and video'ed the scooter spool up from zero to full speed. The video is attached - turn up the volume, you can hear when full speed is reached.

Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

Thanks for posting these! Super useful demonstration. I'll be over in Tulum next week and I'll shoot a comparable video on the Suex XJs that my shop there uses. The power delivery is quite different.