Yukon tangent thread

[Ken Kurtis]

Absolutely, happens quite frequently.

I don't want this too sound too harsh Dave, but I think that's an overstatement that can't really be substantiated. I think it's fair to say it's POSSIBLE that it happens or that we THINK that happens, but to state it as fact ("happens quite frequently") is a stretch.

The reason I say that is that when we investigate these things, we're looking for facts which means things that can substantiated either by the physical evidence or by an eyewitness account.

If we have a diver with an empty tank, the only evidence we have is that the tank is empty. Unless someone actually saw the guy go unconscious and then watched the reg free-flow and drain the tank (ignoring the moral implications of that scenario), there's no way to conclusively state that that's what happened.

And even if another diver saw them 10 minutes earlier with 1000psi, and then they were found with no air in their tank, that's still not proof that it free-flowed to empty. It may be one possible scenario, but there may be others. (And I've worked on a number of cases where divers were consuming air at phenomenally high rates so free-flow's not always the only option, though certainly a possibility).

Given the semi-contentious nature that some of the dissenting comments in this thread have taken (including some by me), I want to again emphasize I'm just saying that we can't state as "fact" something that may be an assumption, no matter how reaosnable that assumption might seem. This post is not mean to be a slam at DM-Dave.

- Ken

 

[Jax]

Thanks, Mods, for stepping in!!!

 

[Ken Kurtis]

Unless you know something I don't . . .

PLEASE don't set us up with such straight lines.

I'm straining my limits of self-control to limit my response to what I'm writing right now.



- Ken

 

[ZenDiver.3D]

You have never seen a diver struggle at the surface and need rescue??? Forget to drop a weight pouch? Have a new BC or be a new diver and not be able to inflate his BC correctly? In panic it was proven and shown in my military training that fine motor skills are the first to go when your adrenaline starts pumping. Small BCD buttons then feel like they aren't even there and become useless and near impossible to operate. Same thing happens in cold water. Since the water temp is 52F on the bottom his manual dexterity could have been almost gone.

So your speculation is incomplete. He could have sank back to the bottom. His camera on a leash as some divers do. And settled in the sand where he laid for over an hour while the boat was at another dive site.

Now, all of the above, yes. I was referring to an emergency swimming ascent for ooa. Absolutely, I have had occasion to deal with all of the above. My thoughts earlier were focused only on an OOA situation. We were talking about two different things above. I agree with what you have above.

 

[cruiser]

I was monitoring VHF radio traffic that day CH16 and was a few miles south of the Yukon. Off Point Loma to be exact. Yes the dive boat left the Yukon to go to the Ruby E and had to return to the Yukon. It was transmitted that it took over an hour before they realized the diver was missing.

That is a shame.

 

[divemaster dave]

I don't want this too sound too harsh Dave, but I think that's an overstatement that can't really be substantiated. I think it's fair to say it's POSSIBLE that it happens or that we THINK that happens, but to state it as fact ("happens quite frequently") is a stretch.
- Ken

Yes agreed, possible but still we won't know. Thanks for the clarification.

You do not need to use a snorkel to orally inflate a BC.

I was just saying in an OOA scenario possibly after a CESA where a diver was struggling for buoyancy on the surface he would have to take out his reg, switch to snorkel, catch his breath while maintaining buoyancy and then manually inflate his BC. Most of us have practiced this or thought about it. If in panic, or if a new diver or using new equipment simple tasks can go wrong very easily.

 

[The Chairman]

---

---

A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

Thread closed for an hour.

Agency bashing, and posts responding to such are being deleted (but you guys are fast and incessant).

---

 

[The Chairman]

---

---

A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

Thread re-opened.

Please respect the ToS.

Use the report button rather than reply to a troll.

Thanks

---

 

[Cave Diver]

I agree, TSandM, the boat's leaving seems a non sequitur to this incident.

Speculation:

So, if the diver did lose track of gas supply and went OOG, for whatever reason, his recourse would be an emergency swim-up ascent from 100fsw depth . . . assuming what air he had in his BC would help more as the volume increased as he ascended . . . He might have had the availability of sucking air from the BC on the way -- one would assume he would dump his weights. All this if he kept calm, or at least held panic at bay, through the emergency.

Poor guy was found on the bottom with all equipment, as far as we know.

My opinion: Someone that has the skill and presence of mind to breathe from a BC on the way to the surface in an OOA emergency has the skill and presence of mind not to find themselves in that situation in the first place.

He'd be much better off keeping the reg in his mouth and getting a few extra breaths out of the tank in a direct OW ascent. If you were dealing with a [-]vertical[/-] horizontal swim such as a cave or a inside a wreck this might be a viable option to get a few extra breaths, but I can't see it even having a place in this discussion.

 

[Jax]

My opinion: Someone that has the skill and presence of mind to breathe from a BC on the way to the surface in an OOA emergency has the skill and presence of mind not to find themselves in that situation in the first place.

He'd be much better off keeping the reg in his mouth and getting a few extra breaths out of the tank in a direct OW ascent. If you were dealing with a vertical swim such as a cave or a inside a wreck this might be a viable option to get a few extra breaths, but I can't see it even having a place in this discussion.

:huh: A vertical swim inside a cave or wreck? I thought those were 'horizontal' . . . pardon my ignorance.