Yoke vs. DIN for stage bottles

[Scared Silly]

It's perfectly acceptable to use Yoke when you HAVE to. But, if someone shows up for a big tech dive on his home turf with Yoke valves, we may have a problem. Not that would refuse to dive with him outright, but it calls into question his committment to technical diving and would cause me to ask more questions and look his setup over more closely before agreeing to dive.

Hmm, I am committed to learning and performing technical dives safely. So how would you handle this? All of my cylinders have DIN valves. My two deco bottles are 200 bar DIN and can be used as yoke. My back gas regs are DIN. But my deco regs are currently yoke. Now for the last little while I have been trying to get the parts to make them DIN but have not had the chance. In a couple of weeks I hope to join in on a tech dive (~140 for ~30 minutes) that will require one/two bottles.

 

[ArcticDiver]

Hmmm, I didn't see anything to take outside. No fights here. Just folks trying to write clearly and express viewpoints. No one I've seen is trying to do more than that. Try not to make it more than that.

 

[Meng_Tze]

Hmm, I am committed to learning and performing technical dives safely. So how would you handle this? All of my cylinders have DIN valves. My two deco bottles are 200 bar DIN and can be used as yoke. My back gas regs are DIN. But my deco regs are currently yoke. Now for the last little while I have been trying to get the parts to make them DIN but have not had the chance. In a couple of weeks I hope to join in on a tech dive (~140 for ~30 minutes) that will require one/two bottles.

I would just do the dive as is.................use your yokes on your deco bottles. Make sure that the planning includes the usage and potential failures. But that goes with any dive.

 

[DeepSeaExplorer]

As said above, any tech diver that sees the use of yoke as a problem in tech diving, is not a truely experienced tech diver. We used yoke back in the 1980's exclusively (and for much of the 1990's), I made hundreds of "tech" dives with no yoke first stage problems.

Yes absolutely, but that was what 20 or more years ago now wasn't it. They used gear that was state of the industry for the time, including 100lb bondage wings and the like too. I'm saying, as modern tech divers we should do the same, use the best gear available to us now, which is DIN.

In this type of diving it's necessary to stay up on the latest techniques. This includes upgrading your equipment. Someone that isn't upgrading their techniques and equipment, and is relying on past history to support those decisions is 'old school.' Now, there are some very good old school divers out there, but there are also some that aren't.

You have to make the committment to keep your gear and techniques up to date. Maybe 20 years from now new divers will be laughing at the gear we use now. But, if we're committed, hopefully, we won't be using the same gear 20 years from now.

 

[DeepSeaExplorer]

Hmm, I am committed to learning and performing technical dives safely. So how would you handle this? All of my cylinders have DIN valves. My two deco bottles are 200 bar DIN and can be used as yoke. My back gas regs are DIN. But my deco regs are currently yoke. Now for the last little while I have been trying to get the parts to make them DIN but have not had the chance. In a couple of weeks I hope to join in on a tech dive (~140 for ~30 minutes) that will require one/two bottles.

It does take some time to transition to tech and many instructors will make allowances during training. As has been pointed out, you can definitely do these types of dive with Yoke valves. I took my first tech class with Yoke valves; however, my instructor made it clear that should be a temporary situation and that I should get all my gear converted to DIN as soon as possible, which I did.

Tech diving is an expensive endeavor. Years ago, I got tired of switching regs around between recreational and technical dives. Eventually, I got all my reg and tanks converted to DIN and bought an extra reg so I didn't have to switch hoses around between dives. I haven't regretted that decision.

What it boils down to is continuous improvement. If you are constantly working to improve techniques and gear, which it sounds like you are, then you're definitely on the right track.

 

[Flightlead]

Wow, I certainly didn't expect this level or response or fervor. Thanks everyone who provided meaningful input.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

In this type of diving it's necessary to stay up on the latest techniques. This includes upgrading your equipment. Someone that isn't upgrading their techniques and equipment, and is relying on past history to support those decisions is 'old school.' Now, there are some very good old school divers out there, but there are also some that aren't.

You have to make the committment to keep your gear and techniques up to date. Maybe 20 years from now new divers will be laughing at the gear we use now. But, if we're committed, hopefully, we won't be using the same gear 20 years from now.

That is well stated. Over time I have changed my gear and general configuration bit by bit more or less every season over the last 20 years as what was considered to be ideal has changed over time, over geographic region and based on the specific diving that I am doing. All three play a part.

DIR divers take hits in this area as what was supposed to be optimum a few years ago is differrent than what is considered to be optimum now, so they get asked whether they were wrong then or are wrong now. Evolution is an essential part of the optimization process, but is not directly stated as such and it gets lost in the noise surrounding the concept of one optimum configuration.

In truth, continual evolution is a reality in technical diving and it is a very good thing - which means we never stop learning and we never stop tweaking and upgrading our equipment. Without it we'd still be diving double hose regs on single outlet doubles with horse collar BC's and Jet Fins...oh wait...we still use Jet Fins.

 

[limeyx]

It does take some time to transition to tech and many instructors will make allowances during training.

I think there is very little room in tech diving for "allowances" to be made. (w/out making a comment about using yoke for tech diving

I can see at the very start (say intro to tech or fundamentals), some minor gear differences could be tolerated but the ocean or the cave both do not care if you are on a "training" dive or a "real" dive when they mess with you.

For me, one of the huge benefits of having all the same (DIN) is that any reg can be pressed into service as deco, back gas reg etc. I know you could probably screw a DIN insert into a manifold, but I think there are some limits most of us would consider too "hacky" for safe diving and thats one of them

 

[DeepSeaExplorer]

I think there is very little room in tech diving for "allowances" to be made. (w/out making a comment about using yoke for tech diving

I can see at the very start (say intro to tech or fundamentals), some minor gear differences could be tolerated but the ocean or the cave both do not care if you are on a "training" dive or a "real" dive when they mess with you.

For me, one of the huge benefits of having all the same (DIN) is that any reg can be pressed into service as deco, back gas reg etc. I know you could probably screw a DIN insert into a manifold, but I think there are some limits most of us would consider too "hacky" for safe diving and thats one of them

I agree... somethings are negotiable and some things deal breakers. I would be surprised if you could get thru a Trimix or Cave class with Yoke valves.

Going tech is a forklift upgrade, costing lots of money, It's not a minor configuration change. The money needed to change a reg and valve to DIN is less than the cost of one dive, small change comparatively.

 

[DeepSeaExplorer]

I'm glad you said "...in my view..." because there are a variety of opinions and reasons, substantial and fanciful that apply.

As for someone showing up for a "...big tech dive..." with what is considered to be wrong equipment I think there is a much more fundamental question: Why would anyone do a "big tech dive" with a stranger?

I have been taught, and my experience reinforces, that it is not safe to dive with strangers in difficult or "advanced" dives. For what would be considered a big tech dive, since no one is a stranger, all equipment and skill issues have been resolved in previous dives. If they have not been resolved the team isn't ready to do the dive yet; period.

I thought I was agreeing with your statement; however, I probably shouldn't have quoted you because I expanded on the thought.

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I have done big dives (big for me) with 'strangers' before. Usually, but not always, it's based upon a good, perhaps even glowing, recommendation from from the dive shop.

I also do cave dives with 'Instabuddies' with no recommendation.

It just depends on what you're comfortable with. But, I find that most cave divers are fairly well squared away and I haven't had a serious buddy related problem. I personally have enough experience and confidence in my skills that it would be very difficult for a buddy to endanger my life, short of outright trying to strangle me underwater. Maybe I can't save him from himself, but that's another issue. That's where the whole self-sufficient diver can be the best buddy argument comes in...

Anyway, this is one of the reasons I chimmed in on this subject because it becomes necessary to mentally evaluate each of these instabuddies prior to the dive. The use of Yoke valves and other equipment I consider to be recreational would be a red flag, requiring further conversation prior to the dive.

If you want to be that diver that everyone has to scrutinize before diving with, then by all means, cling to your Yokes. That's really the main point I wanted to make.

I personally have never declined to dive with anyone, at least that I can recall. And, I appreciate all the times others have let me dive with them so that I didn't have to sit out the dive. In those instances, somebody made an allowance for me, so I make allowances for others, if at all possible. Turnabouts fair play...