Yearly maintenance

[rockjock3]

Yeah, I just did a search found a bunch. I'm a bit less angry now as time has passed. I'm still pissed about $12 O2 cleaning especially marked down from $50. I don't think charging for 02 cleaned reg on 40% is right, and is most possibly a scam.

I agree. I just rebuilt 2 complete manifolds, O2 cleaned four tanks and the manifolds all for the crazy price $12.

 

[DCBC]

I suppose no one is against preventative maintenance. When I started diving this was largely unheard of, but by today's standards we were out-on-the-edge taking greater risks. Today, the risks are greatly reduced and the certification standards for divers and Instructors have been lowered. Perhaps this is due to the redundancies of SCUBA equipment available, or its the new mentality of our society. Suffice it to say that in my car, I have the brakes inspected periodically. I do not however have them replaced as a matter of course. SCUBA shops need to create a revenue stream and annual replacement of parts seems to be one method. To be clear, I think we are all for looking after our life support equipment and we are each free to do so to our satisfaction.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

I guess it comes down to risk evaluation. I open up my reg every year, but don't usually replace any parts. I've often serviced regs and wondered why I was removing perfectly good parts and replacing them. I think most techs would agree that many regs that are serviced, don't need to be; it's a money maker.

Before moving here I spent weekends on my boat and dove perhaps 130 dives per year, mostly in fresh water, on average with the dives averaging perhaps an hour in lenght. I noted that after about 100 dives / 100 hours of use, my regs would become more prone to leaks due to wear in both the low pressure and high pressure seats. This meant that encountering a leak on the last 30 dives or so of the season was much more likely if I did not service the regs mid season.

If I added salt water to the equation, or poor rinsing, poor maintainence, excess silt, sand, etc, all of those would be expected to further shorten the interval between required overhauls.

So...if a diver only does 20 or 30 dives per year, mostly in fresh water and properly soaks and rinses the reg properly after each dive and in particular after each salt water dive, the reg may not need a service once per year.

On the other hand, I see numerous regs each year where the diver does no more than 20 or 30 dives per year and does not rinse the reg, or does so improperly and gets water inside with the result that the reg is, at a mimimum, badly in need of service and in a few cases per year is barely salvageable.

The other variable is the seat material and the design of the second stage. An unbalanced second stage tends to have high spring pressures that engrave the seat while the reg sits in storage and when this groove gets excessive, it will leak. So a second stage that has just been sitting on a shelf for a year or two with zero dives, may still need a new seat. With a balanced second stage, they tend to have lighter spring pressures and this is less of a problem but can still be an issue after a year or two of non-use. Some companies have over the years tried various balance chamber designs that remove any spring pressure when the reg is not pressurized, but these are more complex and also increase the potential of water getting in the reg during normal rinsing, so they will still need an annual inspection at a minimum.

Then their is the liability issue.

As a tech, I agree many of the regs that get done annually do not really need it at that particular time, but it is hard to tell how well the owner has treated it and will continue to treat it. If I just inspect a reg and call it good and in 6-8 months of normal use it fails during a dive trip, the owner will get cranky. If the reg fails and the owner drowns, his widow is going to sue me, especially if the reg manufacturer requires or even suggests an annual service.

So from a liability perspective, if you bring a reg in for annual service and tell the tech that you only dove it once in fresh water, the tech is going to ask you to be very clear on whether you just want it flow checked to assess it's current functioning with no guarentee what it will do next month, or whether you want an annual service and if you ask for the latter you are going to get the latter. Don't ask him to just open it up and do whatever he thinks best as if he has half a brain it will get a full annual service.

I periodically get asked to work on just a second stage as the first stage has recently been serviced. If what I observe on the outside of the first stage suggests differently, I do the first stage as well as I do not want to set my self up as the last person in the chain who saw a potetnial issue and ignored it.

So in effect, if a manufacturer sets up a service schedule, the shops and techs are stuck with it. Companies that advertise a bi-annual service interval with an annual inspection are not really any better, as it places the liability on the the tech with the result that unless I know the diver, his maintainence habits and the service history of his regs, that annual inspection is going to become a full blown service as both diver and company will pretty sell me down the river if the reg fails prior to the next service.

Personally, I think it makes sense to certify divers to work on their own regs and then sell them parts each year to do their own service work - as long as they assume responsibility and waive their rights to sue the company if the reg fails. In that case, they become the party that is responsible for the condition and functioning of their own regulator and they can service it whenever they see fit.

 

[DCBC]

As far as the Diver/Owner/User perspective is concerned, legal liability is not a consideration. A diver is responsible for the safe operation of the equipment used in a similar manner as an owner of a vehicle must ensure its safety and road worthiness prior to operation.

It is true that a Dive Shop renting equipment has a different "standard-of-care." This is however another discussion. Manufacturers too have a legal right to advise of any foreseeable equipment requirements and to suggest recommendations. Equally foreseeable is their ability to error on the side of safety; especially if they can line their pockets at the same time. Dive shops are also in a difficult position as to what work is required and to what extent internal part replacement is necessary (as aptly described by DA Aquamaster). Dive techs must insure that a reasonable standard-of-care is met. Given this, they too will error on the side of safety; especially when they can line their pockets at the same time.

DA Aquamaster makes many good points. I suppose my take on all this comes down to some Instructors mindlessly passing on manufacturer's suggested requirements as if the Diver will no doubt die if he doesn't adhere to the manufacturer's maintenance policy! In my case, it would be "Do what I say, not what I do."

I prefer to suggest that the new diver educate himself/herself on how to properly look after his equipment and the dangers involved in not doing so. I advise them of specific manufacturer recommendations, but also mention that the regulator may not actually require a rebuild. Wear is a complex formula of the amount of use (or the lack of it) and the time-frame between the service cycle. An educated diver will ensure that safe practices are adhered too and I'm confident that no one would disagree with this statement. When in-doubt rebuild, but as time goes by you may wish to look into the service cycle of your equipment in greater depth.

 

[fnfalman]

I don't know why people make this issue to be mountain out of mole hill.

It's very simple. Your own regulator is your own equipment. You can do with it any which way you want. You can dive it in the ocean and then throw it in the corner of the garage until the next dive. You can run it until it doesn't work any more. We don't really care. It's your gears. The PADI police isn't gonna come and get you.

For others who want to keep their gears tip top and possibly even pay too much for not needed maintenance, so what? It ain't your money. It ain't your gear. It's their gear and their money. If they want to make sure that everything is ship shape on a weekly basis, then that's their call.

The bottom line is that if it's your gear, then you do whatever you feel like it with your gear.

 

[sporket]

But for those of us who still have there regs sent in for annual service (I will be learning to do this on my own soon), is it unfair to ask for your used parts back? Much like what we expect from a auto repairman.

 

[DCBC]

sporket: I'd ensure that this is store policy before I'd let them touch my reg. Most stores should do this as a matter of course.

 

[fnfalman]

But for those of us who still have there regs sent in for annual service (I will be learning to do this on my own soon), is it unfair to ask for your used parts back? Much like what we expect from a auto repairman.

Not at all. Most shops automatically hand you the old parts, but just in case they don't, let them know in advance that you want your used parts back.

 

[LeadTurn_SD]

Some one want to explain the purpose of yearly maintenance to me and why I should pay $70 to fix something that's working?
Price break down on a mares abyss 22 which purchased last year was $400+:
$34.50 - Labor
$14.00 - Parts 1st stage
$10.00 - Parts 2nd stage
$12.00 - O2 Cleaning.

What amazes me is the O2 Cleaning was discounted, it's normally $50 as per the receipt. Honestly, what the hell.

My future plan is to buy regs, use them till they stop working, and toss them in the trash.

Constructive Thoughts, comments, explanations are more than welcome. I'd really like a solid explanation.

Ebay is a better bet, but don't wait until they stop working. Or you could sell it to me (I'm a Mares fan), I'll rebuild it and give it a good home forever

To answer you main question: Learn how to do the non-invasive inspections yourself, then you'll know when it is time to rebuild.... you'll know long before your "Life Support gives up the ghost (can you tell that I think "Life Support" is a mis-used term?).

Best wishes.

 

[Thalassamania]

The "Life Support" drum is being beat in several different threads at once, I just don't get it.