Private Boat - Emergency O2

[MaxBottomtime]

If you decide to keep O2 on the boat so a diver can breathe it on the way to a chamber, a DAN O2 kit is a big help. If you decide to try for underwater O2, get a reg that is made for 100% O2. The Mares Abyss 22 is only for up to 40%.
It's extremely unlikely that divers breathing 32% during dives in less than 100 feet will ever need O2, but if it were to happen, you would be better served to get them to emergency services as quickly as possible. Breathing O2 at twenty feet only delays that response.

 

[johndiver999]

If you decide to keep O2 on the boat so a diver can breathe it on the way to a chamber, a DAN O2 kit is a big help. If you decide to try for underwater O2, get a reg that is made for 100% O2. The Mares Abyss 22 is only for up to 40%.
It's extremely unlikely that divers breathing 32% during dives in less than 100 feet will ever need O2, but if it were to happen, you would be better served to get them to emergency services as quickly as possible. Breathing O2 at twenty feet only delays that response.

I am curious about this assumption. If a diver is going 200-250 or more feet deep, I can understand that they could be very bent when arriving at 20 feet - depending on time at depth and ascent rate.

But a diver with a single tank who is diving around 100 feet with nitrox,.... assuming they make a reasonable ascent and are down on a single tank... is it really reasonable to assume that they would be so bent when arriving at 20 feet that- treatment of the bend with pure oxygen at 20 feet is unlikely to significantly or entirely eliminate symptoms?

I would assume that they MIGHT start feeling symptoms at 20 feet on nitrox, but if they stopped there and switched to oxygen, it just "seems" like they probably would not get that much bubbles and the oxygen should/could help a lot with that if they just stayed there for a while.

This is a question, not something I would even try to back up with data, but on the other hand it makes more sense to me than when someone simply states that a diver won't (or almost never will) get bent on 32% and a single tank in less than 100 feet.

 

[rjack321]

I am curious about this assumption. If a diver is going 200-250 or more feet deep, I can understand that they could be very bent when arriving at 20 feet - depending on time at depth and ascent rate.

But a diver with a single tank who is diving around 100 feet with nitrox,.... assuming they make a reasonable ascent and are down on a single tank... is it really reasonable to assume that they would be so bent when arriving at 20 feet that- treatment of the bend with pure oxygen at 20 feet is unlikely to significantly or entirely eliminate symptoms?

I would assume that they MIGHT start feeling symptoms at 20 feet on nitrox, but if they stopped there and switched to oxygen, it just "seems" like they probably would not get that much bubbles and the oxygen should/could help a lot with that if they just stayed there for a while.

This is a question, not something I would even try to back up with data, but on the other hand it makes more sense to me than when someone simply states that a diver won't (or almost never will) get bent on 32% and a single tank in less than 100 feet.

You don't even need the O2 for this scenario. Just a big enough tank of nitrox to: 1) drop back down a little until your symptoms abate 2) ascend slow. O2 is not some magic panacea and not even necessarily a good idea compared to spending (eg) 10mins at 30ft, 10mins at 20ft and 15mins at 10ft. Many an urchin diver has self medicated DCS on air or nitrox.

Being bent in the water can happen although you are much more likely to be slowly increasingly symptomatic over the ~1-6 hours after getting out of the water. At that point the tides will have turned, its potentially dark, if you have a sore elbow fine do another dive and try to fix it. If you have neurological symptoms, its a huge risk to even get suited up into a drysuit and back into the water at all.

 

[rjack321]

Hey folks.... Once again, I just want to say thanks to all of you that have provided advice, support and even criticism. Information is a good thing! But I think it's also fair to say that this is an internet forum and so I really have no way of knowing if the responses are coming from qualified experts with good intentions or self serving know-it-alls with illusions of grandeur.

What I do know is that my honest intention here is to have viable options that might help myself or others when I am on my boat in remote areas of the Pacific NW where assistance and even communication can be a challenge. Admittedly, I am a stubborn nonconformist. My inclination and "spidy sense" .......is that Tursiops, MaxBottom Time, JohnDiver and Tbone are offering balanced advice as well as genuine and proper / educated concern.

My main take-away is that having the equipment options onboard is a good thing..... but that continuing education and training is probably a good idea....

Thanks again for taking your time to help me work through all of this....

Cheers....

Yes its definitely best to listen to people who don't live within 1,000 miles of the PNW who are validating your initial assumptions vs divers who have actually attempted IWR here. Especially since you've latched onto all of this diving equipment as important when people just aren't dying of DCS here in the first place.

Seriously get an AED, at your age you need that way more than you need to try IWR mid tidal exchange at someplace serious like Neah Bay or even Sekiu

 

[tbone1004]

If you decide to keep O2 on the boat so a diver can breathe it on the way to a chamber, a DAN O2 kit is a big help. If you decide to try for underwater O2, get a reg that is made for 100% O2. The Mares Abyss 22 is only for up to 40%.
It's extremely unlikely that divers breathing 32% during dives in less than 100 feet will ever need O2, but if it were to happen, you would be better served to get them to emergency services as quickly as possible. Breathing O2 at twenty feet only delays that response.

The RescuEAN on an AL80 or AL40 is a far better solution for boat use than the DAN O2 kits. Depending on where you are the O2 kits are great for a car ride to a chamber, but are usually inadequate for a decent length boat ride and once that O2 bottle is depleted you are done. Exceptions if you have the DIN to pin index adapter, but with the RescuEAN you can plug into anything and it's not affected by the salt water *the biggest problem with those medical O2 regs IME*. Exceptions made if you think you'll have a non breathing patient and don't have the space/team available to use a BVM in which case the DISS port on the medical regulators is useful for the MTV-100. I carry a MTV-100 on a medical bottle with an integrated valve/regulator combo in my truck at all times, but the RescuEAN comes with me on the boat.

$500 is the cheapest you can get into a DAN kit which has a 9cf tank or something silly like that. For about the same price you can rig up an AL80 with regulator/RescuEAN and have almost 10x the capacity of O2 in a much more versatile package. Think about it

 

[johndiver999]

Thanks for the input, I’m not so sure IWR was a priority for the op, rather he was looking at the oxygen primarily as a prophylactic. If I were on the boat, I would be more comfortable with having that option. I used to dive on a boat and left the “recipe” with th captain of how to use my whip to mix up a half bottle of 50% from a 1000 psi oxygen bottle and a full tank of 32%, should I get really screwed up. Never had to do it.

 

[rjack321]

Thanks for the input, I’m not so sure IWR was a priority for the op, rather he was looking at the oxygen primarily as a prophylactic. If I were on the boat, I would be more comfortable with having that option. I used to dive on a boat and left the “recipe” with th captain of how to use my whip to mix up a half bottle of 50% from a 1000 psi oxygen bottle and a full tank of 32%, should I get really screwed up. Never had to do it.

There's no need to go mixing at all and no demonstrated benefit. Breathe the 100% until exhausted, then the 32% (although this is unlikely to be of great value)

 

[johndiver999]

Thanks, I always wondered if someone shot up from 130 ft in 45 seconds and blew off deco stops and ended up on the surface, having a 50 % bottle delivered to them while hanging at 20 on oxygen and I still felt bad, I might like the option to drop to 70 feet and then slowly ascend back up to the oxygen, But, like I said never needed to test that idea.

 

[NW Dive Dawg]

Yes its definitely best to listen to people who don't live within 1,000 miles of the PNW who are validating your initial assumptions vs divers who have actually attempted IWR here. Especially since you've latched onto all of this diving equipment as important when people just aren't dying of DCS here in the first place.

Seriously get an AED, at your age you need that way more than you need to try IWR mid tidal exchange at someplace serious like Neah Bay or even Sekiu

Your concern about my age is touching.... But all emotion aside, I actually do agree that having an AED onboard a dive boat is probably a good suggestion for everyone and all ages.... You never know when you might have some younger diver onboard who has dangerously high blood pressure and is at higher risk of cardiac arrest because of getting too emotionally involved in internet discussion forums.

I am not as young as I used to be.......and so I guess my chances of dying young are getting slimmer every day! In my mind..... 69 is the new 49.. I walk 18 on the golf course once, sometimes twice, a week (about 4-5 miles each time depending on accuracy)..... and can still out drive a lot of the young bucks.....

Back on topic..... my primary goal here was never for in water recompression... But if the IWR option is there and it makes sense and done properly with the right equipment....right conditions, etc.. why not? My intention in all of this is to have a healthy o2 option available onboard my boat and so thought I would ask here. The idea of an in water hang tank or 2nd stage on a hose with O2 at 20ft was really more for emergency or "cautionary" IWD. So there's a new acronym for ya'll.....CIWD. "Cautionary In Water Decompression". I don't plan deco dives any more, but sometimes even the best planning can go awry. Equipment failure, computer craps out, faster than intended ascent, etc...might all be a good reason for
CIWD.

Anyway....I'm glad I did ask my questions because I think I received some great info, feedback etc...... And.... I will consider the AED.. They aren't that expensive. About the same cost as my EPIRB.....and hope I never have to use either of them!

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Telling a recreational diver to do IWR - means the boat can't move.

Put cave line on a fishing pole with a REALLY big reel. Get to shore and reel 'em in!

When I was young and dumb (just older and dumb now), I did try to see if I could skim across the water being pulled behind the boat. Not a good idea with a ski rope (too flexible). Should have tried something that doesn't stretch. My friends sure laughed their arses off.