Yearly maintenance

[fnfalman]

Very sensible and logical.

HOWEVER, for those of us who like to spend our money frivolously and needlessly...so what? ...QUOTE]

There is no rational response to that argument. You win.

Of course I win. It's my gear and it's my money and I'll determine how to deal with them as I see fit. You do with your gear and with your money as you see fit.

If I were to want to wait until my regulators breath heavily and make strange noises then send them in for services, then that's what I'll do.

If I were to want to buy some tools, get some factory shop manuals and learn how to do my own maintenances and services, then that's what I'll do.

If I were to want to take my regulators to the shop and have them inspected and serviced on a weekly basis, then that's what I'll do.

People ask questions and we should give them information to make their own decisions with.

It's stupid to say that "you're gonna die if you don't get your regs serviced annually", just as it is asinine to denigrade those who prefer to have their regs serviced by the factories or by certified technicians at the LDSes.

Why can't we give newbies information and let them make their own informed judgements instead of calling names and insinuating this and that?

 

[fnfalman]

You are totally correct. However as I personally don't have unlimited funds, I can't help but remember what my father told me when I was young; "A fool and his money will soon be parted..."

Last I checked, I ain't Bill Gate either. However, for those who prefer to stick to the factory recommended service schedule AND don't mind shelling out the money WHILE KNOWING that it's unnecessary, who are we to poo-poo them?

As far as what fathers teaching their children about money, my daddy used to tell me, "Son, you ain't gonna be able to take it with you when you die."

 

[DCBC]

Last I checked, I ain't Bill Gate either. However, for those who prefer to stick to the factory recommended service schedule AND don't mind shelling out the money WHILE KNOWING that it's unnecessary, who are we to poo-poo them?

As far as what fathers teaching their children about money, my daddy used to tell me, "Son, you ain't gonna be able to take it with you when you die."

It seems to me that the discussion has covered the right of any diver to spend his money in any way s/he wishes. I don't think anyone really has an issue with that. What is an issue (for me at least) is how some instructors and dive shops put the fear of God into students, that they absolutely must have their regulators rebuilt annually, or they will surely die...

Personally, I'm all for education and diving safety, but I also believe in honesty and responsibility. I encourage divers and instructors to better understand why maintenance is required and when it's really necessary. Fear may work, but I don't think that it's very professional. For those who are not interested in knowing more and simply wish to service their regulator annually, that's fine with me.

As SCUBA divers, we learn why we don't hold our breath on ascent. The instructor could just say "Just don't or you'll die!" It's better to explain things so that it makes sense and the student can understand the logic behind it.

 

[fnfalman]

It seems to me that the discussion has covered the right of any diver to spend his money in any way s/he wishes. I don't think anyone really has an issue with that. What is an issue (for me at least) is how some instructors and dive shops put the fear of God into students, that they absolutely must have their regulators rebuilt annually, or they will surely die...

They're worried about liability.

Personally, I'm all for education and diving safety, but I also believe in honesty and responsibility. I encourage divers and instructors to better understand why maintenance is required and when it's really necessary. Fear may work, but I don't think that it's very professional. For those who are not interested in knowing more and simply wish to service their regulator annually, that's fine with me.

My instructor and my LDS owner told me that after I'm finished with my cert (i.e. not a trainee with them any more), and that if I were serious about diving, then come talk with them and they will give me the full scoop instead of what the Party Line they have to spew because of the teaching doctrines they have to abide by.

As SCUBA divers, we learn why we don't hold our breath on ascent. The instructor could just say "Just don't or you'll die!" It's better to explain things so that it makes sense and the student can understand the logic behind it.

That would be nice, but sometimes it's not up to the instructors either. Many a students want to get their C-card and then go tearing ass wild through the underwater world without bother to listen any more about SCUBA. And many of them simply don't care to learn any more. You can't preach what people don't want to hear or learn.

 

[DCBC]

They're worried about liability.

My instructor and my LDS owner told me that after I'm finished with my cert (i.e. not a trainee with them any more), and that if I were serious about diving, then come talk with them and they will give me the full scoop instead of what the Party Line they have to spew because of the teaching doctrines they have to abide by.

That would be nice, but sometimes it's not up to the instructors either. Many a students want to get their C-card and then go tearing ass wild through the underwater world without bother to listen any more about SCUBA. And many of them simply don't care to learn any more. You can't preach what people don't want to hear or learn.

Too bad your instructor has taken that attitude. I don't teach to minimum standards, but surpass them. Course depth is up to the instructor, as long as the minimums are met. So my students are not "tearing ass wild through the underwater world." They are trained properly before they receive their card.

That is not to say that I teach them everything, but they have a solid understanding of what will keep them as safe as possible and why they do what they do. As far as the "Party Line" is concerned, PADI has one of the highest degrees of tunnel vision in the industry. This instructor wouldn't be PADI by any chance would he? Don't get me wrong, PADI is the largest organization and has got to this position by being the most competitive. Unfortunately, it has come at the expense of having some of the lowest standards in the industry.

In any regard, annual regulator maintenance recommendations (although this varies) is a product of the equipment manufacturer and not the dive shop. I agree it is based on liability concerns, but its also a means of revenue generation. Similar unreasonable maintenance schedules can be found in the auto industry, if you wish to maintain your warranty. They are not solely based on reasonableness or actual necessity.

Anyway, thanks for the discussion...

 

[martzak]

Why can't we give newbies information and let them make their own informed judgements instead of calling names and insinuating this and that?

Now you're making sense. I think that was the original purpose of this thread before egos got in the way. What this thread needs, and there is some of that here already, is FACTs regarding regulator service and maintenance. I don't think anyone is questioning an individual's prerogative to spend their money as they please.

 

[halocline]

Why can't we give newbies information and let them make their own informed judgements instead of calling names and insinuating this and that?

The problem with this statement is that newbies do not typically have "informed judgements" and that's why they come to SB, to get informed. (Well, that and to waste some serious time!) So that's what is going on here, newbies are being informed that your idea about regulator service is not that smart.

 

[fnfalman]

Too bad your instructor has taken that attitude. I don't teach to minimum standards, but surpass them. Course depth is up to the instructor, as long as the minimums are met. So my students are not "tearing ass wild through the underwater world." They are trained properly before they receive their card.

That is not to say that I teach them everything, but they have a solid understanding of what will keep them as safe as possible and why they do what they do. As far as the "Party Line" is concerned, PADI has one of the highest degrees of tunnel vision in the industry. This instructor wouldn't be PADI by any chance would he? Don't get me wrong, PADI is the largest organization and has got to this position by being the most competitive. Unfortunately, it has come at the expense of having some of the lowest standards in the industry.

Yes, it's PADI, and from what I understand they don't allow much straying outside of their doctrine, hence to avoid liability issues with both PADI and their insurances, they have to toe the line.

In any regard, annual regulator maintenance recommendations (although this varies) is a product of the equipment manufacturer and not the dive shop. I agree it is based on liability concerns, but its also a means of revenue generation. Similar unreasonable maintenance schedules can be found in the auto industry, if you wish to maintain your warranty. They are not solely based on reasonableness or actual necessity.

Anyway, thanks for the discussion...

Sometimes factory recommended scheduled maintenance jive with warranty, and sometimes not.

My only beef with this thread is that it went from "YOU'RE GONNA DIE if you don't service your regs like the manuals said" to "YOU'RE A DUMBASS if you service your regs like the manuals said" to "YOU'RE NOT A REAL DIVER if you don't know how to service and repair your own gears".

Give the people information and let them make their own decisions.

 

[fnfalman]

The problem with this statement is that newbies do not typically have "informed judgements" and that's why they come to SB, to get informed. (Well, that and to waste some serious time!) So that's what is going on here, newbies are being informed that your idea about regulator service is not that smart.

I hope that they'd learn from my idea about regulator service is to do whatever they deem necessary with their own gears from available information instead of blindly following the manuals, the LDS or self-proclaimed Scubaboard diving experts.

 

[DCBC]

Yes, it's PADI, and from what I understand they don't allow much straying outside of their doctrine, hence to avoid liability issues with both PADI and their insurances, they have to toe the line.

You have to ensure that minimums are met.

My only beef with this thread is that it went from "YOU'RE GONNA DIE if you don't service your regs like the manuals said" to "YOU'RE A DUMBASS if you service your regs like the manuals said" to "YOU'RE NOT A REAL DIVER if you don't know how to service and repair your own gears".

Give the people information and let them make their own decisions.

I think many people expressed their views. Discussion Boards are like that...