Wreck Pen.

[PerroneFord]

My instructor is not DIR by ANY stretch of the imagination and neither is IANTD. I tried to choose instructor over agency. However, he knows my feelings about DIR/GUE, allows me to adhere as closely as possible to what I know of the GUE standards, and adapts his class to match as much as possible. But it's not GUE training. GUE does not appear to offer wreck penetration as a codified course. I had hoped that would come in Tech2, but the course description doesn't say that.

I think I would feel more comfortable in a full length 5-day course and then working with a good mentor.

At some point, I will attempt to pursue both Tech2 and Cave2. For my own reasons. But that is not a possibility at this point. Congrats on passing Cave1. That's no easy task!

 

[rjack321]

Tech1 has some line work, although its mostly as a way to task load you somemore and to have the rudiments of navigation on a tech dive where its really stinkin' dark. My Tech1 class emphasized several times that its not a penetration class - do not go penetrating wrecks at 150ft, it'll bite you in the ***.

I am not Tech2, but from the classes I have seen from the outside, there's no penetration in that either.

I would continue through full-cave and then decide on whether you need more wreck specific training or just measured experience. You are obviously interested in DIR. As good as your cave instructor might be, I think you need to take a class for a teacher using DIR protocols and techniques day in and out to really understand them. This is very evident for me in discussions of line protocol I have had with non-DIR divers.

Other than AndrewG, Joe and Delia of 5thD-X, I don't know of anyone outside of GUE who's a "DIR instructor" (whatever that might really be).

For the record, I am Tech1 (with Andrew) and Cave1 (with Chris LM). I'm planning on taking Cave2 once I have more experience, and I'm not very interested in Tech2.

 

[Jimmer]

I'm sorry, but I cant sit back and listen to this crap anymore....Tell me how someone who has NEVER taken a GUE course can "follow the methods, quite strictly" as you say....
Please tell me how solo, sidemount cave diving down in Mexico is following GUE's methods...

Spend a few hours away from the computer and the ***** hits the fan. As for my recommendation, I'm going on what 10 to 12 people have told me about him. I started asking people locally, for instructors to do my advanced nitrox/deco cert with, as well as eventually wreck penetration, his name kept popping up as one of the best for deep wrecks. As for the GUE/DIR issue, that was from 2 of his students I met last night, who kept referring to him as the gear Nazi, and that if you don't dive a DIR configured rig, you weren't training with him. Clearly that picture you posted is not DIR, and I'm not disputing that after seeing the picture. As stated, my suggestions was primarily for the deep Great Lakes wreck training, and if you read my post the Gue methods was qualified with "as I understand it". As Steve R added, I guess the information I was given with respect to his GUE affiliation was incorrect, and I'll retract that.

Jim

 

[ScubaMilo]

Spend a few hours away from the computer and the ***** hits the fan. I guess the information I was given with respect to his GUE affiliation was incorrect, and I'll retract that.

Jim

Gue instructors are easy to find:

www.gue.com

If their not listed there then they are not GUE affiliated Instructors, and if they have not even taken a GUE class then it would be very hard for them to dive, better yet teach following GUE standards/protocols.

I think that is what Jay Roy was getting at.

Maybe contact GUE about what they recomend for DIR based wreck penetration class.
I'm sure they would have some very useful solutions.

Milo

 

[Jimmer]

Gue instructors are easy to find:

www.gue.com

If their not listed there then they are not GUE affiliated Instructors, and if they have not even taken a GUE class then it would be very hard for them to dive, better yet teach following GUE standards/protocols.

I think that is what Jay Roy was getting at.

Maybe contact GUE about what they recomend for DIR based wreck penetration class.
I'm sure they would have some very useful solutions.

Milo

Thanks for the tip, but I'm not the one looking for the DIR wreck penetration class, I was just passing on (evidently false) information I had gotten from others.

Jim

 

[chickdiver]

I will hopefully finish full cave this fall or winter. My hope was to do that, dive the caves all winter and spring, and then look to take a wreck course next spring/summer. I am not in a hurry, just trying to do my homework.

Are you volunteering to mentor? I can't think of anyone in this area I'd rather do this with than you. But then you've already heard me sing your praises before. Honestly, I never thought I'd be able to dive with you so I was looking elsewhere.

Maybe we can do a small dive next spring and you can tell me if you think I'm ready. If not, I'll work more.

[BTW: I've joined the darkside, but still haven't recieved my cookies. Are you the person to speak to regarding that?]

Of course, you are welcome to come and dive with us any time!

I'm not in charge of cookies this week

 

[LAJim]

Is it time and appropriate to bring up the issue of the certifying agencies that trained the divers killed on SG? Either their training was defective or the agencies involved might suggest how their training deviated from standards. I'm not trying to start a flame war - this is a responsive post. If I was shopping around for wreck penetration training I would figure out where they learned it and then go elsewhere.

 

[Jay Roy]

Spend a few hours away from the computer and the ***** hits the fan. As for my recommendation, I'm going on what 10 to 12 people have told me about him. I started asking people locally, for instructors to do my advanced nitrox/deco cert with, as well as eventually wreck penetration, his name kept popping up as one of the best for deep wrecks. As for the GUE/DIR issue, that was from 2 of his students I met last night, who kept referring to him as the gear Nazi, and that if you don't dive a DIR configured rig, you weren't training with him. Clearly that picture you posted is not DIR, and I'm not disputing that after seeing the picture. As stated, my suggestions was primarily for the deep Great Lakes wreck training, and if you read my post the Gue methods was qualified with "as I understand it". As Steve R added, I guess the information I was given with respect to his GUE affiliation was incorrect, and I'll retract that.

Jim

The thing is, gear configuration is only a small part of DIR....
Good luck with your upcoming training...
Jay

 

[Jimmer]

Thanks Jay. If you don't mind me asking, where abouts are you located in Ontario, and do have any other suggestions for good tech instructors? I'd like to speak to as many as possible before making up my mind.

 

[rainman_02]

Is it time and appropriate to bring up the issue of the certifying agencies that trained the divers killed on SG? Either their training was defective or the agencies involved might suggest how their training deviated from standards. I'm not trying to start a flame war - this is a responsive post. If I was shopping around for wreck penetration training I would figure out where they learned it and then go elsewhere.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but what I remember from the original article was that none of them were cave or wreck trained. And that they violated training [at least] by 1) lack of continuous guideline and 2) and improper gas plan.


Back on topic, PF, you've got a PM. I heartily recommend AG's Wreck 1 (no deco) course. Very line intensive, but very worth it! I can't wait to hit the Yukon in a few weeks!