Wreck Pen.

[PerroneFord]

Perrone- you are already cave trained, yes? If so, speaking as someone who does both cave diving and wreck penetration frequently, I can say that the two are not dissimilar enough to warrant a redundant class. What would serve you best in that instance is to get a good mentor.

I will hopefully finish full cave this fall or winter. My hope was to do that, dive the caves all winter and spring, and then look to take a wreck course next spring/summer. I am not in a hurry, just trying to do my homework.

Are you volunteering to mentor? I can't think of anyone in this area I'd rather do this with than you. But then you've already heard me sing your praises before. Honestly, I never thought I'd be able to dive with you so I was looking elsewhere.

Maybe we can do a small dive next spring and you can tell me if you think I'm ready. If not, I'll work more.

[BTW: I've joined the darkside, but still haven't recieved my cookies. Are you the person to speak to regarding that?]

 

[Jay Roy]

Where are you looking to do the training? If you are interested in doing it on the Great Lakes, try calling Matt at Dan's Dive Shop dansdiveshop.ca I was supposed to meet with him last night, to discuss the deco course, but he couldn't make it to last night's pool session, so I chatted with 2 of his deco students, who said he was one of the best tech instructors in this area for Great Lakes diving, and he follows GUE methods quite strictly as I understand it. Particularly in gear config. From their website "Matt is highly experienced in the full spectrum of what Technical Diving has to offer from wreck exploration and penetration to full cave and sidemount cave, to the most demanding mixed gas dive sites." He might be a good candidate to take the wreck penetration course from, assuming you're interested in coming up this way for it.

Jim

I'm sorry, but I cant sit back and listen to this crap anymore....Tell me how someone who has NEVER taken a GUE course can "follow the methods, quite strictly" as you say....
Please tell me how solo, sidemount cave diving down in Mexico is following GUE's methods...

 

[ScubaMilo]

I'm sorry, but I cant sit back and listen to this crap anymore....Tell me how someone who has NEVER taken a GUE course can "follow the methods, quite strictly" as you say....
Please tell me how solo, sidemount cave diving down in Mexico is following GUE's methods...

I like this well spoken young man!
Keep up the good work Jay Roy.

Milo

 

[rjack321]

Perrone, just for my own understanding who did you take cavern/intro from (instructor + agency pls.)?

Are you continuing with them for full cave? Why or why not?

What do you want to accomplish with a wreck class and why do you think your cave training is insufficient in this area?

RJ

 

[Jay Roy]

Here's a pic of him from his recent trip down to Mexico....
From this small head shot, if that's DIR, I quit..

 

[amascuba]

Here's a pic of him from his recent trip down to Mexico....
From this small head shot, if that's DIR, I quit..

You should go read the GUE procedure changes recently made. In the changes we are all supposed to wear helmets to protect our cranium, add d-rings to hang more gear from, and quick releases on our harnesses so that we can get out of them quickly intentionally and unintentionally. Do you mean to tell me that you don't keep up with this information? And you call yourself a GUE diver.

 

[PerroneFord]

Perrone, just for my own understanding who did you take cavern/intro from (instructor + agency pls.)?

Are you continuing with them for full cave? Why or why not?

What do you want to accomplish with a wreck class and why do you think your cave training is insufficient in this area?

RJ

rjack321,

For the moment, I'll leave the instructor out of the conversation. Agency was IANTD. I will likely finish full cave with this instructor, however I plan to take several other cave courses with other agencies.

My goal for wreck class is to explore ships both externally and internally to a depth where I feel comfortable. Right now, that is shallower than 80-90ft for both wrecks and caves, though I have been about 95ft deep in a cave. This limit will likely be extended after completing trimix training.

I did not say my cavern/cave class was insufficient, however wrecks seem to pose some hazards that caves appear not to. Wrecks don't "flow", wrecks rust, wrecks can have "false exits", wrecks may or may not match the "map", wrecks may have doors that can swing shut, wrecks may have ordinance on them.

Caves, at least from my very limited experience, don't have similar issues, but do present some formidable issues of their own, the biggest one being penetration distance. I reminded someone this week that in my cave course we penetrated well beyond the length of the Oriskany in an overhead. A sobering thought to those accustomed to being able to make a quick egress from an overhead.

I have never shyed away from training. Experience may well be the best teacher, but a good instructor is invaluable in my opinion. When possible, I will try to choose an instructor who shares the same principles I do in their approach to diving, and I prefer to train with those who leave and breathe the type of diving I am training to do. When I wanted to learn cave diving, I went to someone who's in caves 3-4 days a week, doing 5k ft + penetrations, and was teaching every month. I hope to find someone similar in the wreck arena, as I am sure they will have more to teach me than I can possibly absorb in a class.

 

[PerroneFord]

It looks as though there is some trouble brewing in the thread. Gentleman, I would ask you politely to take it to PM.

Thanks for understanding.

 

[rjack321]

Hmmm,
IANTD isn't necessarily DIR, I suppose it might be with the right instructor - which is why I asked. But I'll assume for now that you don't have fundemental "non-DIR" habits to muck with any prospective class.

In this case, I still recommend Andrew. But I also agree with Heather, you may just need to build your wreck experience slowly with a good mentor.

Having a "full meal" 5 day wreck penetration class may slightly accelerate your wreck learning curve. But as the recent deaths on the SG illustrate, you need good training, appropriate experience, and the discipline to know when you are breaking the rules.

I'm only Cave1 to date, but I can't imagine full cave being inadequate in any way - assuming that its equivelant to GUE Cave2. I have no idea if IANTD and your instructor are adequate there. Anyway full cave should be a solid training base to build on with experience.

I'm not sure Andrew's "wreck1" class would get you that much more.

 

[Steve R]

For those of you who do this regularly, who would you select as a top instructor? Keeping in mind that I want as little deviation from GUE type standards and training as possible.

You can take it or leave it of course Perrone, but my guess is Jay knows that the individuals in question deviate "a little more than a little bit" from GUE standards and training you requested. I think he was just being responsible and ensuring you knew that Jimmers response with respect to what was quoted by him was highly inaccurate, as much as G/Lake training probably was never in your future anyway.

I'm with Heather on this. Mentor. Good luck with your future training.

regards

EDIT: Spelling