diver 85
Contributor
Man---this one could get good---------------
.
.
Would You Use A Ponypak
- Thread starter flyin01
- Start date
Please register or login
Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.
Benefits of registering include
- Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
- A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
- You can make this box go away
Patoux01
I saw your profile picture. It motivated my comments, to benefit anyone who has not dived side-mount. I have, and its great.
I can see some sport divers going in that direction. That was part of my thinking with PonyPak's ability to carry larger tanks in the side mount configuration.
That said, the bungee clipping is not part of the system, because, for some sport divers - it could be confusing. They should not be going where they shouldn't, hence the extra mobility of the bungees is not incorporated.
That said, if a diver wants to add them, he/she can figure out a way for themselves. It is possible. In that case, the added benefit is limited to method of clipping the bailout regs onto the side of the tanks (for use by others in an emergency) - if the diver wants that benefit.
The other new possibility - with PonyPak's 4 port gas block added, the diver can switch to the comfort of a full face mask---(I love my OTS Guardian) and gain diver-to-diver and diver-to-surface communications. The side mount regs would have whips patched into the gas block. Balance and trim are maintained simply, by rotating the knob on the gas block, which feeds the FFM.
Again, these are all options. And that is what PonyPak is about - new options, and thinking about new ways for solving potential problems while diving. PonyPak is starting with "98%" of sport divers, who are not redundant, and are at greater risk.
I appreciate your thought - "you are targeting the wrong people here." Actually, I didn't start this thread. Flyin01 did (whoever he is). I knew nothing about it until last night - until on a whim I looked at Scubaboard for the first time in over a year. I have never posted here. Last night, was my first time ever.
I was stunned to see the comments being made - the direction the conversations were going - all based upon no experience with PonyPak. Nobody (except one, who posted a positive comment, based upon his actual "sighting")....
There is no "target"... just a one by one response to the "agenda" that was created by others.
I had no choice but to respond, reasonably, to the direction of the conversations that was not cast by me.
I hope to turn that around..... with meaningful conversations, with reasonable people - who might be open to looking a new ideas.
Thank you for your time and your opinions.
[FONT=&]William (Bill) Messner[/FONT][FONT=&]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&]The only “buddy” who will never leave your side….. is YOU! Give your "buddy" the equipment he needs ... to save your life![/FONT]
---------- Post added February 21st, 2015 at 07:18 PM ----------
Thank you "diversteve"
PonyPak comes with an adapter that fills (the integrated tank valve/1st stage reg) from an air station, like a regular tank. Also available is a yoke adapter, from which you could fill it from another tank.
Re travel: good question. The "Sport" version is easily dis/reassembled - with no tools in about 5 minutes. So renting a tank is fine. The only downside is you would be getting a tank with standard valve and 1st stage - which is more than twice the size and weight of our specially designed integrated valve/1st stage.. It will work fine with a rented tank, although slightly imbalance to the right side (of the diver) due to the extra mass.
I fly with mine, repeatedly, including carry on luggage. No TSA problems, with the valve/reg removed. It can be removed and reinstalled by hand (albeit a "stiff" one).
Please enlarge the photo (we will add more close ups in a couple of weeks) All PonyPak's have a separate second stage regulator - with the hose neatly clipped along the bottom - and returning across the top.
The second stage is the yellow piece, located right above the valve 1st stage. To see the sport version work - watch Video #2. It's short. This test diver like to wear his slightly above his belt line. I (and others) wear it lower, at the belt line. It is entirely your preference. It is stable anywhere, in any position. The video shows its use (for self-rescue). Video #1 shows other uses with buddies.
RE Jacket BC's. Again... no problems. It is easily (and permanently) adjusted to any body-BC size, shape. We actually had a very buxom (and delightful) young lady dive with it, to understand the gender related "issues."
We learned, we needed longer webbing to be available, it the eventuality it is needed....
We have come across no shape or BC, to which the PonyPak cannot be successfully adjusted and attached.
Thank you for your questions. I hope I have been helpful.
[FONT=&]William (Bill) Messner[/FONT][FONT=&]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&]The only “buddy” who will never leave your side….. is YOU! Give your "buddy" the equipment he needs ... to save your life![/FONT]
---------- Post added February 22nd, 2015 at 01:24 AM ----------
What is even better are your photos. All of them - very cool!
I saw your profile picture. It motivated my comments, to benefit anyone who has not dived side-mount. I have, and its great.
I can see some sport divers going in that direction. That was part of my thinking with PonyPak's ability to carry larger tanks in the side mount configuration.
That said, the bungee clipping is not part of the system, because, for some sport divers - it could be confusing. They should not be going where they shouldn't, hence the extra mobility of the bungees is not incorporated.
That said, if a diver wants to add them, he/she can figure out a way for themselves. It is possible. In that case, the added benefit is limited to method of clipping the bailout regs onto the side of the tanks (for use by others in an emergency) - if the diver wants that benefit.
The other new possibility - with PonyPak's 4 port gas block added, the diver can switch to the comfort of a full face mask---(I love my OTS Guardian) and gain diver-to-diver and diver-to-surface communications. The side mount regs would have whips patched into the gas block. Balance and trim are maintained simply, by rotating the knob on the gas block, which feeds the FFM.
Again, these are all options. And that is what PonyPak is about - new options, and thinking about new ways for solving potential problems while diving. PonyPak is starting with "98%" of sport divers, who are not redundant, and are at greater risk.
I appreciate your thought - "you are targeting the wrong people here." Actually, I didn't start this thread. Flyin01 did (whoever he is). I knew nothing about it until last night - until on a whim I looked at Scubaboard for the first time in over a year. I have never posted here. Last night, was my first time ever.
I was stunned to see the comments being made - the direction the conversations were going - all based upon no experience with PonyPak. Nobody (except one, who posted a positive comment, based upon his actual "sighting")....
There is no "target"... just a one by one response to the "agenda" that was created by others.
I had no choice but to respond, reasonably, to the direction of the conversations that was not cast by me.
I hope to turn that around..... with meaningful conversations, with reasonable people - who might be open to looking a new ideas.
Thank you for your time and your opinions.
[FONT=&]William (Bill) Messner[/FONT][FONT=&]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&]The only “buddy” who will never leave your side….. is YOU! Give your "buddy" the equipment he needs ... to save your life![/FONT]
---------- Post added February 21st, 2015 at 07:18 PM ----------
Thank you "diversteve"
PonyPak comes with an adapter that fills (the integrated tank valve/1st stage reg) from an air station, like a regular tank. Also available is a yoke adapter, from which you could fill it from another tank.
Re travel: good question. The "Sport" version is easily dis/reassembled - with no tools in about 5 minutes. So renting a tank is fine. The only downside is you would be getting a tank with standard valve and 1st stage - which is more than twice the size and weight of our specially designed integrated valve/1st stage.. It will work fine with a rented tank, although slightly imbalance to the right side (of the diver) due to the extra mass.
I fly with mine, repeatedly, including carry on luggage. No TSA problems, with the valve/reg removed. It can be removed and reinstalled by hand (albeit a "stiff" one).
Please enlarge the photo (we will add more close ups in a couple of weeks) All PonyPak's have a separate second stage regulator - with the hose neatly clipped along the bottom - and returning across the top.
The second stage is the yellow piece, located right above the valve 1st stage. To see the sport version work - watch Video #2. It's short. This test diver like to wear his slightly above his belt line. I (and others) wear it lower, at the belt line. It is entirely your preference. It is stable anywhere, in any position. The video shows its use (for self-rescue). Video #1 shows other uses with buddies.
RE Jacket BC's. Again... no problems. It is easily (and permanently) adjusted to any body-BC size, shape. We actually had a very buxom (and delightful) young lady dive with it, to understand the gender related "issues."
We learned, we needed longer webbing to be available, it the eventuality it is needed....
We have come across no shape or BC, to which the PonyPak cannot be successfully adjusted and attached.
Thank you for your questions. I hope I have been helpful.
[FONT=&]William (Bill) Messner[/FONT][FONT=&]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&]The only “buddy” who will never leave your side….. is YOU! Give your "buddy" the equipment he needs ... to save your life![/FONT]
---------- Post added February 22nd, 2015 at 01:24 AM ----------
What is even better are your photos. All of them - very cool!
Dr. Lecter
Contributor
Hello PonyPak:
How does your system offer a better solution to those mentioned by other Scubaboard members? I have seen many divers mount a small pony bottle next to their primary cylinders. It provides the gas redundancy with minimal impact to streamlining. In addition, the diver can easily remove his rig without having to first dismount something that obstruct the BCD's securing points (cummberbund, chest clibs, ect).
I believe you're receiving criticism because many of us do not see the advantages of your system over those that have been well established, within the recreational and technical diving communities. It would be helpful to perform a side by side comparison to illustrate these differences and highlight the advantages of your system.
O.
How does your system offer a better solution to those mentioned by other Scubaboard members? I have seen many divers mount a small pony bottle next to their primary cylinders. It provides the gas redundancy with minimal impact to streamlining. In addition, the diver can easily remove his rig without having to first dismount something that obstruct the BCD's securing points (cummberbund, chest clibs, ect).
I believe you're receiving criticism because many of us do not see the advantages of your system over those that have been well established, within the recreational and technical diving communities. It would be helpful to perform a side by side comparison to illustrate these differences and highlight the advantages of your system.
O.
Hi Ouvea,
I appreciate your questions. Thank you.
In asking my fellow sport divers, why do you not dive redundant - 99% offered the same answer: "I see it swinging from under the arm, or on the side of their main tank -and I can tell, it will continually roll me over on my side. I don't want to be dealing with that all the time." Their perceptions are affirmed, when that ask those who do mount ponies that way. So they decide "I'll take my chances." And then do, some fatally. "Well established?" Maybe so with the small percentage of tech divers. For sport divers? Nada.
The solution was to place the weight in the diver's perfect center of gravity. What a picture cannot covey (particularly in opposite of many diver's misconceptions about how they truly do dive)....is the fact that PonyPak completely disappears from the diver's awareness, in the water. Issues of balance and trim are gone.
PonyPak resolves the issue of "discomfort" for those who reject redundancy, for precisely that reason. PonyPak is for those who do not dive redundant.
For those who do already - they don't need PonyPak. Unless, they want a more enjoyable diving experience. That includes the advantage of the clipping system for the hose & second stage reg, for those want to side sling.
PonyPak will mount identically as any other system. They can side sling / tank mount, if they want. But no other system will mount as PonyPak - at the diver's center of gravity.
And it stays in the position - irrespective of the diver's orientation - on any side - even upside down.
To use it, requires nothing to unclip, for you or your buddy. But you can, easily in seconds to allow an untethered assent with your OOA buddy.
"Impact to streaming" is one of the "misconceptions". Many divers swim with their arms folded across their chest. What they find with PonyPak, it becomes a perfect arm rest. What is the difference between the drag of "folded arms", or of PonyPak - directly behind the folded arms? None,
If ones "coeffcient" becomes important for a drag race with your buddy to the next reef (I am joking, here...)....the solution is easy. PonyPak is instantly rotate-able from the front to the side mount position, in the water, in seconds. When you get there, and want to relax, rotate it back to the front, with identical ease.
PonyPak is about choices - for those who see none in the side/tank mount configuration.
Take a look a the video's #1 and #2. They're short, and may help in clarifying perceptions. The best way to clarify, is to give it a try!
The above answer is directed to the sport diver. If you would like me to address the benefits for tech divers, PSD diver, please post your thoughts, and I will gladly respond.
Thank you for your thoughts.
[FONT=&]William (Bill) Messner[/FONT][FONT=&]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&]The only “buddy” who will never leave your side….. is YOU! Give your "buddy" the equipment he needs ... to save your life![/FONT]
---------- Post added February 22nd, 2015 at 06:59 PM ----------
Dr. Lecter,
As I encouraged before, if somehow, you could find within you, a more civilized way to ask your question, I would be happy to answer it, for a second time.
The first time was post #62, paragraphs 5 & 6.
Question: Are you really a licensed doctor? In what?
I ask in all seriousness, because your "bed-side manner" is decidedly different from any licensed doctor I've had the occasion to meet.
[FONT=&]William (Bill) Messner[/FONT][FONT=&]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&]The only buddy who will never leave your side .. is YOU! Give your "buddy" the equipment he needs ... to save your life![/FONT]
I appreciate your questions. Thank you.
In asking my fellow sport divers, why do you not dive redundant - 99% offered the same answer: "I see it swinging from under the arm, or on the side of their main tank -and I can tell, it will continually roll me over on my side. I don't want to be dealing with that all the time." Their perceptions are affirmed, when that ask those who do mount ponies that way. So they decide "I'll take my chances." And then do, some fatally. "Well established?" Maybe so with the small percentage of tech divers. For sport divers? Nada.
The solution was to place the weight in the diver's perfect center of gravity. What a picture cannot covey (particularly in opposite of many diver's misconceptions about how they truly do dive)....is the fact that PonyPak completely disappears from the diver's awareness, in the water. Issues of balance and trim are gone.
PonyPak resolves the issue of "discomfort" for those who reject redundancy, for precisely that reason. PonyPak is for those who do not dive redundant.
For those who do already - they don't need PonyPak. Unless, they want a more enjoyable diving experience. That includes the advantage of the clipping system for the hose & second stage reg, for those want to side sling.
PonyPak will mount identically as any other system. They can side sling / tank mount, if they want. But no other system will mount as PonyPak - at the diver's center of gravity.
And it stays in the position - irrespective of the diver's orientation - on any side - even upside down.
To use it, requires nothing to unclip, for you or your buddy. But you can, easily in seconds to allow an untethered assent with your OOA buddy.
"Impact to streaming" is one of the "misconceptions". Many divers swim with their arms folded across their chest. What they find with PonyPak, it becomes a perfect arm rest. What is the difference between the drag of "folded arms", or of PonyPak - directly behind the folded arms? None,
If ones "coeffcient" becomes important for a drag race with your buddy to the next reef (I am joking, here...)....the solution is easy. PonyPak is instantly rotate-able from the front to the side mount position, in the water, in seconds. When you get there, and want to relax, rotate it back to the front, with identical ease.
PonyPak is about choices - for those who see none in the side/tank mount configuration.
Take a look a the video's #1 and #2. They're short, and may help in clarifying perceptions. The best way to clarify, is to give it a try!
The above answer is directed to the sport diver. If you would like me to address the benefits for tech divers, PSD diver, please post your thoughts, and I will gladly respond.
Thank you for your thoughts.
[FONT=&]William (Bill) Messner[/FONT][FONT=&]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&]The only “buddy” who will never leave your side….. is YOU! Give your "buddy" the equipment he needs ... to save your life![/FONT]
---------- Post added February 22nd, 2015 at 06:59 PM ----------
Dr. Lecter,
As I encouraged before, if somehow, you could find within you, a more civilized way to ask your question, I would be happy to answer it, for a second time.
The first time was post #62, paragraphs 5 & 6.
Question: Are you really a licensed doctor? In what?
I ask in all seriousness, because your "bed-side manner" is decidedly different from any licensed doctor I've had the occasion to meet.
[FONT=&]William (Bill) Messner[/FONT][FONT=&]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&]The only buddy who will never leave your side .. is YOU! Give your "buddy" the equipment he needs ... to save your life![/FONT]
Dr. Lecter
Contributor
No, you spoke of lockable clips versus ease of attachment/removal, demonstrating that you simply don't get it. The issue here is not security of the clip's attachment to the diver, but the fact that it can clip onto things without the diver actuating the clip. Think hard, maybe the potential issue will finally come to you?
Perhaps you could include a disclaimer that your system presents an entirely unnecessary risk of entanglement and should therefore not be used by divers carrying line or near others who are, or who are entering any kind of overhead.
Perhaps you could include a disclaimer that your system presents an entirely unnecessary risk of entanglement and should therefore not be used by divers carrying line or near others who are, or who are entering any kind of overhead.
dumpsterDiver
Banned
- Messages
- 9,003
- Reaction score
- 4,652
- # of dives
- 2500 - 4999
It is hard to be impressed with the product and your credentials when the promotion video is really incredibly poor, underexposed and demonstrates a total lack of seriousness. Rather than beat your chest and claim that the people who criticize the product are not the target market.. why not produce a few decent video clips that actually show the system working.. and I forget what the video looked like, does it feature suicide clips?
DuumpsterDiver.
You comments are valid. However, I have stated multiple times throughout my posts - these are NOT professional videos. They were never intended for promotion. They are simply ruff edits of the raw footage shot of the first tests - for us to review, analyze and determine what worked.....
Unfortunately (or fortunately) people's immediate demand to see the new design function U/W exceeded our ability to show them, in the context of everything else required at this moment in time.
Launching a new company, with three major products concurrently, is a huge undertaking in time and money. We have to prioritize. Getting the product the distributors and retailers is first. Professional videos will come in time. So too will a "real" website. The issue is not lack of credentials. It is lack of hours in a day.
We will catch up. I hope you will be patient with us. We will get there.
One of our ideas is to have a section of our website for the earliest adopters of PonyPak to post short clips of themselves, diving with PonyPak. It would be fun for them, and for us.
We also believe, in time there will be "events" where lives in fact are saved, because the diver himself or their buddy, was "PonyPak'd." We will have a place for people to share the stories....
As to the "clips," it features exactly what seven years of development, product analysis and dive testing by full-time professional divers, who work in the most adverse, horrid conditions imaginable. Those people, who have been by my side, have an accumulated number of professional dives - 20 + times greater than Mr. Lecter's very modest, (500-999).
The openings of the clips are lodged firmly towards the chest, 6" below the mask. They will not rotate forward. Nor will they opened inadvertently. Why?
Whatever might try to open the clip - will more likely rip your mask of first. And in either case, your hands are right were they need to be, to quickly resolve the situation.
Understanding that, is the difference between actually diving with PonyPak, (or at the least, reviewing it in person)... and not.
I greatly appreciate your interest, your time and your consideration of PonyPak. It is people like yourself who raised questions, made constructive comments, and helped create a successful alternative for the 98% of the sport divers, who do not now, dive redundant. That is our primary focus.
Thank you.
[FONT=&]William (Bill) Messner[/FONT][FONT=&]
Home
[/FONT]
[FONT=&]The only “buddy” who will never leave your side….. is YOU! Give your "buddy" the equipment he needs ... to save your life![/FONT]
You comments are valid. However, I have stated multiple times throughout my posts - these are NOT professional videos. They were never intended for promotion. They are simply ruff edits of the raw footage shot of the first tests - for us to review, analyze and determine what worked.....
Unfortunately (or fortunately) people's immediate demand to see the new design function U/W exceeded our ability to show them, in the context of everything else required at this moment in time.
Launching a new company, with three major products concurrently, is a huge undertaking in time and money. We have to prioritize. Getting the product the distributors and retailers is first. Professional videos will come in time. So too will a "real" website. The issue is not lack of credentials. It is lack of hours in a day.
We will catch up. I hope you will be patient with us. We will get there.
One of our ideas is to have a section of our website for the earliest adopters of PonyPak to post short clips of themselves, diving with PonyPak. It would be fun for them, and for us.
We also believe, in time there will be "events" where lives in fact are saved, because the diver himself or their buddy, was "PonyPak'd." We will have a place for people to share the stories....
As to the "clips," it features exactly what seven years of development, product analysis and dive testing by full-time professional divers, who work in the most adverse, horrid conditions imaginable. Those people, who have been by my side, have an accumulated number of professional dives - 20 + times greater than Mr. Lecter's very modest, (500-999).
The openings of the clips are lodged firmly towards the chest, 6" below the mask. They will not rotate forward. Nor will they opened inadvertently. Why?
Whatever might try to open the clip - will more likely rip your mask of first. And in either case, your hands are right were they need to be, to quickly resolve the situation.
Understanding that, is the difference between actually diving with PonyPak, (or at the least, reviewing it in person)... and not.
I greatly appreciate your interest, your time and your consideration of PonyPak. It is people like yourself who raised questions, made constructive comments, and helped create a successful alternative for the 98% of the sport divers, who do not now, dive redundant. That is our primary focus.
Thank you.
[FONT=&]William (Bill) Messner[/FONT][FONT=&]
Home
[/FONT]
[FONT=&]The only “buddy” who will never leave your side….. is YOU! Give your "buddy" the equipment he needs ... to save your life![/FONT]
dumpsterDiver
Banned
- Messages
- 9,003
- Reaction score
- 4,652
- # of dives
- 2500 - 4999
You should welcome the feedback, both negative and positive. It is my guess that the negative feedback may be more useful than the positive. Having people focus in on the perceived weaknesses, should help you address them or allay their concerns.
DumpsterDiver....
I appreciate your humor (I am hoping it was meant to be that)....
For those who want to see our admittedly, "poor and underexposed" videos, they are here.
When we start doing our Demo Days at dive locations around the country - we just might need a Pony Pack APU for our 18 wheeler!
Thank you.
[FONT=&]William (Bill) Messner[/FONT][FONT=&]
Home
[/FONT]
[FONT=&]The only “buddy” who will never leave your side….. is YOU! Give your "buddy" the equipment he needs ... to save your life![/FONT]
I appreciate your humor (I am hoping it was meant to be that)....
For those who want to see our admittedly, "poor and underexposed" videos, they are here.
When we start doing our Demo Days at dive locations around the country - we just might need a Pony Pack APU for our 18 wheeler!
Thank you.
[FONT=&]William (Bill) Messner[/FONT][FONT=&]
Home
[/FONT]
[FONT=&]The only “buddy” who will never leave your side….. is YOU! Give your "buddy" the equipment he needs ... to save your life![/FONT]
Similar threads
