Would you stay away from a dive shop that had an accident?

[Bubblesong]

Maybe “dangerous” can describe those threats we cannot control. We feel driving is safer if we can control our car, but we feel flying is less safe because we are not in control of plane.
Those who feel they are in control of gear prep and dive decision-making may feel safer than those who consider factors beyond our control, such as getting tangled on fishing line, or surprised attacked by a lions mane jelly.

 

[happy-diver]

and tomorrow the people will forget and the next day new people will come that don't know

 

[clownfishsydney]

Depends. There are certainly operators in Australia and overseas I decided I would never use due to accidents and deaths which I believe were caused by the operators' procedures and recklessness.

 

[CT-Rich]

@CT-Rich can you breathe underwater without any gear?

You still haven’t defined what you mean by mitigation. Is training mitigation? I primary reg only or is adding a secondary reg? Is a wetsuit mitigation?

If you look at the actual number of deaths that occur from airline travel, in real life. It is incredibly safe. Diving has only about 100 deaths per year. Very safe with the current training programs and equipment. IF PRACTICED WITHIN INDUSTRY STANDARDS (BEST PRACTICE) Diving is a very safe sport. It is not without risk.

 

[Capt Jim Wyatt]

The tangential discussion on mitigate seems to have somewhat hijacked the topic.

The earliest form of mitigation I remember is the "J"-Valve. Back then we had no SPGs so the "J" valve was invented to "mitigate" the risk of going OOA during a dive. Then we got SPGs which allowed us to further "mitigate" the risk of going OOA during a dive.

I think all of you here can think of things we have either invented or just started to do or use that "mitigate" the inherent risk of breathing underwater from equipment that can fail and kill us.

I'll give a more modern thing we do to mitigate the risk of being left in the dark due to a primary light failure while cave diving.... Drum Roll: If you said don't cave dive you would be correct or if you said carry extra lights you would also be correct.

Mitigate in this context simply means lessening the risks.

Shall we move on?

 

[boulderjohn]

I don't want to derail this thread about the relative risk of scuba, but I thought I would respond to the original purpose of the thread twice, from two points of view.

In this post I want to describe three incidents.

1. A Scubaboard thread began with a video of a boat picking up a drift diver who had been "lost" by his boat. The video maker made a big deal about the boat not knowing where the diver was. Sounds bad, right? People were piling on the dive operation for unsafe practice. It turned out that the diver was part of a drift diving group that was towing a surface flag, with the boat following the flags of the groups. The diver had left his group and gone off on his own, with no flag. What was the boat to do? The entire thread ended up getting deleted, and the video-maker pulled the video under threat of a lawsuit.
2. I was diving with a group in Palau, and in our dive briefing the DM emphasized strongly that at a certain point we were going to leave the reef and finish the dive drifting in strong current. He made sure everyone understood how important it was that we leave the reef together. When we reached that point, he got everyone's attention and signaled that it was time to leave the reef. OK's were signaled all around. As we set out, a dive pair with cameras suddenly saw something on the reef they wanted to photograph. The DM tried to get their attention, but we were all now drifting off into the current, watching the two of them taking their pictures. We luckily found them later on the surface.
3. I was in a group in Cozumel doing a drift dive with a specific plan. One guy, my instabuddy, kept getting as far from the group as possible, leaving me with the task of trying to stay halfway between him and the group. At a key point he got so far away that he could not possibly get back to the group in that current, and I got the DMs attention to show where he had gone. The DM had to abandon the dive plan and take the group off after him.

A dive operation can only do so much, and if they have divers who are intent on getting "lost," the divers will get lost.

 

[boulderjohn]

On the other hand....

I am very surprised that one of the most common points of view on ScubaBoard has not been raised in this thread. ScubaBoard has a large number of participants who insist that a dive operation/divemaster has no obligation whatsoever for the safety of their divers. Dive safety, including not getting lost on a drift dive, is totally up to the divers.

I do not hold that point of view, BTW. I think a dive operation/divemaster is very much supposed to do what s/he can to keep divers safe, but, as my previous post indicates, any diver intent on getting lost can thwart those efforts.

 

[Germie]

It all depends on what happened. If it is just a diver who died, I won't say no to that divecenter if the reason is just drowning or a medical problem. I trust myself in diving and trust myself solodiving, so what others are doing is not my problem.
If a diver died because of contaminated gas, it is important for me to know if they checked all things that this will not happen again.
If a boat leaves a divesite without checking if all divers are back on board, it is also important if they change their policy that this will not happen again.
If a divecenter is not following standards during courses, it is not my problem when I am paying for a dive and don't need an instructor or guide. I only will say something if it is really dangerous.
If equipment is worn, I will have my own, so this is not a problem. But, if it is a country where you expect normal equipment, I will look at another divecenter. If it is a really poor country and not a lot is available, I will ask if I can look at the compressor and ask questions about how they maintain it.
So it depends on what happened.

And about what is a dangerous sport, I think horseriding is way much more dangerous than diving. But horses are such nice animals, but from the most easy horse you can fall of at is are still flight animals.

 

[KenE]

As I read these posts I wonder why commercial air travel was compared to individual diving. If we compare two people in a Cessna and two people diving we find a similar level of risk. Commerical air travel and a submarine have more in common than with the individual diver. Both have large teams to manage risk. Back to the Cessna and two man dive team. Both need certification and training, both have inherent risks. Both have extremes, but we will stick to the basics in this forum. Neither is a sport, both are hobbies in this context. The more you fly or dive the better you become at risk management and safer it becomes. Human error is the primary factor for failure of both activities. Yes diving has risks, the level differs depending on experience. But to say it is safe for everyone is going a bit too far. One must have the mental ability to a. pass the certification, and b. to mitigate the associated risks. Unfortunately, this rules out "safe for everyone" because not everyone has that mental ability.

Back to OP, if a dive operation has an accident one must interpret the information available and make a reasonable assessment of their comfort with using that dive operation. The next operation down the street may have had the exact accident the year before without your knowledge. Is it any better? We rarely hear the real reason for the accident if we hear about the accident at all. The best we can do is learn from the accidents and not repeat them. A shop that has repeated accidents isn't learning and should be avoided. Other than that, one must make their own assessment. Keep Diving!

 

[admikar]

Deaths per mile flown :no more than 1 for every 2,000,000,000 person-miles flown

Deaths per mile driven: 1 to 1.3 per 100,000,000 miles driven.

Flying is way safer than driving.

And what do you think those stats would be if we take pilots with as much training and actual capability of an average driver (with your general attitude toward checks/maintenance) and put them in charge of large aircraft?
CESA sounds great, but I'll bet you that 9 out of 10 new divers will keep their mouth firmly shut during real oh **** moment. Training and technology makes it safe, but diving is higher risk than walking in your back yard.

To the OP, as you already had to figure out by now, it depends. What, when, how? Those are questions that needs to be answered before you will get your answer.