Worsening insurance crisis

[Lorenzoid]

PADI standards only exists to PADI instructors. They do not publish standards so it isn't possible to be held to something that doesn't exist.

So if, in the context of your insurance, you were ever asked what you believe the certification limit is of a PADI OW diver, what would you say? I'm guessing you would just play it safe and say all OW certifications are limited to 60 feet, and that's what you would limit a PADI OW diver to on your charters?

 

[drrich2]

I see it as incredibly clear. Spelled out word for word.
Maximum depth of 60'

But word for word, it says 'upon completion of this course.' It does not say 'forever after barring additional certifications.'

 

[Lorenzoid]

But word for word, it says 'upon completion of this course.' It does not say 'forever after barring additional certifications.'

I love it! You should have been a lawyer, not a doctor.

 

[Tracy]

So if, in the context of your insurance, you were ever asked what you believe the certification limit is of a PADI OW diver, what would you say? I'm guessing you would just play it safe and say all OW certifications are limited to 60 feet, and that's what you would limit a PADI OW diver to on your charters?

Think this through. Why would my insurance company care about my interpretation of an arbitrary agencies standards that aren't published?
OW cert is for 60', it is in writing. I run with it. I'm not looking for gray areas that I can operate in.

 

[SpeedyJ]

But word for word, it says 'upon completion of this course.' It does not say 'forever after barring additional certifications.'

What reasonable person would think that certifications are not intended to build on prior certifications, thereby expanding the qualifications/limits of the certification holder?

 

[Lorenzoid]

Think this through. Why would my insurance company care about my interpretation of an arbitrary agencies standards that aren't published?

In the context of a lawsuit. You said a condition of the insurance is: "I'm not covered if divers are doing dives beyond their certification."

OW cert is for 60', it is in writing. I run with it. I'm not looking for gray areas that I can operate in.

Makes sense to me. Go with the conservative interpretation.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

That is it. It can be as vague or precise as you would like it to be. Since it is my butt, I take it literally.

It is your interpretation. Your boat, your rules. I think this is smart in a country as litigious as the US and with poor training being as prolific at it is.

Just as divers, we need to perform our own risk assessment, businesses must do the same. As an instructor, I am incredibly risk averse, as an LLC won't protect me entirely if a student does something foolish. So I need to evaluate the student. If I determine that a student is uncoachable (or I am not the right coach), training ends and a refund is given.

As it just isn't worth it.

 

[MichaelMc]

Only SDI deep seems to increase the depth, moving it to 130', as described in the intro section of revision 0123.

SDI AOW (Advanced Adventurer) doesn't list any "qualifications of graduates", though there is a 60' to 100' training dive as a taste of the deep cert. Interesting.

Advanced diver (five full specialties) has no outcomes itself.

 

[drrich2]

What reasonable person would think that certifications are not intended to build on prior certifications, thereby expanding the qualifications/limits of the certification holder?

They would, but that doesn't automatically indicate additional certification is required to do some of those other things.

For example, there exist certifications for some things, such as Night Diver and Boat Diver under the PADI system, which entail training and certification in things many of us do...without those certifications.

I have neither certification, yet I've done both of those types of dives.

 

[boulderjohn]

I have repeatedly said that many dive operators have insurance that requires them to limit the depths of their customers based on certification levels. That is not what I am talking about.

I am talking about a diver's personal insurance having those limits.