Woman drowns during training - Hidden Paradise Campground, Indiana

[boulderjohn]

So, in answering my question from the other day, it appears that no one can even imagine a plausible scenario that would fit the description in the lawsuit. I am looking forward to seeing the actual explanation.

 

[Esprise Me]

I may be a dinosaur but, for scuba diving in a wetsuit, I like weight belts! They are simple, robust, everyone knows how to operate them, and you can see at a glance how much weight there is. Now everyone seems to dive with complex, proprietary, "integrated" weight systems, and a couple of weights slipped into the pockets for good measure.

I can remember swapping gear (U/W) with my instructor as part of my O/W course - but with an integrated weights system that would be like swapping weight belts as well! The hazards for two people with a considerable size and weight difference are obvious.

Not to mention, it's tricky to stay down in a thick wetsuit when all your weight is on the BCD you just removed...

The idea that he might have given her too much weight when he swapped BCDs with her does seem to track with what happened, even if it's hard to believe he would have made that switch without considering that. Maybe he swapped *because* she felt she was underweighted and he knew he had more?

 

[Kay Dee]

The idea that he ght have given her too much weight when he swapped BCDs with her does seem to track with what happened,...........

I saw this 'possibility' mentioned before in the thread, but did I miss something, or is it a known fact that he gave her a weight intergrated BC, or just an assumpition / possibilty?

 

[clownfishsydney]

Doctor drowns during diving class
I remember this case! 3m of water!!!!
The instructor was eventually expelled by PADI.
Very very sad indeed.

The linked article has nothing to do with the quoted post.

 

[clownfishsydney]

Some years ago in Sydney, a young tourist drowned while SCUBA diving at a very shallow, sheltered dive site at Cabbage Tree Bay on Sydney's Northern Beaches where we live. You would struggle to log 6m depth there, and at any time the shore or beach is an easy swim away on the surface. And yet, somehow, she became separated from her buddy and continued to swim around UW until she apparently ran out of air.

It was a strange, inexplicable case where a lovely young woman lost her life that affected me then and still does.

And in October 2013 an extremely experienced international dive instructor died in Botany Bay, Sydney, in 3 metres of water when she ran out of air. Can happen to anyone who is using equipment they are not used to and who is distracted by other things (for example, new creatures).

 

[jonhall]

I saw this 'possibility' mentioned before in the thread, but did I miss something, or is it a known fact that he gave her a weight intergrated BC, or just an assumpition / possibilty?

There are no facts yet, only speculation. To remind everyone, these are the only 2 claims that deal with the BCD and what happened.

16. During the training process, and while in the water, Donna mentioned having difficulty descending in the water, at Which point Clay St. John negligently switched his buoyancy control device “BCD” and gave it to Donna so she could use his.

17. Due to Clay St. John’s negligence, Donna descended under the water and was unable to ascend causing her tragic drowning death.

The only thing we know for sure, is what is being claimed: 1) the student mentioned having difficulty descending 2) the instructor switched his BCD and 3) gave it to the student so she could use his, and then 4) she descended under the water and was unable to ascend.

We're missing what occurred between claim 16 & 17 (we need a 16.5) - it can be speculated that there was a weighting issue because of the mention of descending/unable to ascend which leads to more speculation, such as with a possible weight belt; but nothing about weighting is included in the claim. More information is needed about how switching the BCD was negligent as described in the claim - after he "gave" it to her, did she put it on? What actually made the switch negligent?

Part 2 of my thoughts!! This is a complaint for wrongful death damages. What do you think about claims 21 & 22 against the other defendant in the case?

21. As the premises owner, maintainer, controller and operator of the quarry lake, Defendant Hidden Paradise owed Donna Kishbaugh, as a public invitee, a duty to exercise reasonable care in maintaining its premises in a safe condition and warning the public of unsafe conditions, including but not limited t0, dangerously murky water that restricted Visibility, a lack of equipment to assist inexperienced scuba divers, and a lack of safety or rescue equipment.

22. Defendants were negligent in their operation, management, supervision, and/or control of the lake quarry and the training process.

Was thinking, what if I were called for Jury Duty when (and if) this case goes to court?!? I would probably be excused

 

[Centrals]

The linked article has nothing to do with the quoted post.

The linked article was about a female student lost her life on her first training dive in 3m of water in 2007. My reply to #44.
The instructor was expelled by PADI much later. I checked the expelled list quite often after the accident.

 

[Kay Dee]

Thanks for the clarification jonhall.

What actually made the switch negligent?

Was wondering the same myself. Depending on actual circumstances it may not have been the best thing to do but..........more info needs to be known about that seemingly uknown (to 'us') known.

What do you think about claims 21 & 22 against the other defendant in the case?

21. As the premises owner, maintainer, controller and operator of the quarry lake, Defendant Hidden Paradise owed Donna Kishbaugh, as a public invitee, a duty to exercise reasonable care in maintaining its premises in a safe condition and warning the public of unsafe conditions, including but not limited t0, dangerously murky water that restricted Visibility, a lack of equipment to assist inexperienced scuba divers, and a lack of safety or rescue equipment.

22. Defendants were negligent in their operation, management, supervision, and/or control of the lake quarry and the training process.

What do I think? Typical, but certainly not right, IMO!

As an example, I had a friend who lost his dive shop business and his marriage because a certified recreational diver ran out of air and drowned whilst diving off his dive boat. He was taken to court for negligence by WH&S (possibly similar to USA's OSHA?) and although the case was eventually droped, it was too late then, as it had dragged on for a couple of years with all the associated legal costs invloved. And no, he had no recourse to counter-sue WH&S!

 

[Divin'Papaw]

As an example, I had a friend who lost his dive shop business and his marriage because a certified recreational diver ran out of air and drowned whilst diving off his dive boat. He was taken to court for negligence by WH&S (possibly similar to USA's OSHA?) and although the case was eventually droped, it was too late then, as it had dragged on for a couple of years with all the associated legal costs invloved. And no, he had no recourse to counter-sue WH&S!

This is why you need to be certain that your professional liability insurance covers the cost of your defense.

 

[Divin'Papaw]

What do you think about claims 21 & 22 against the other defendant in the case?

21. As the premises owner, maintainer, controller and operator of the quarry lake, Defendant Hidden Paradise owed Donna Kishbaugh, as a public invitee, a duty to exercise reasonable care in maintaining its premises in a safe condition and warning the public of unsafe conditions, including but not limited t0, dangerously murky water that restricted Visibility, a lack of equipment to assist inexperienced scuba divers, and a lack of safety or rescue equipment.

22. Defendants were negligent in their operation, management, supervision, and/or control of the lake quarry and the training process.

I wasn't surprised to see Hidden Paradise named nor was I surprised by their response to the claim. Every diver at Hidden Paradise signs a liability release that clearly, based upon my recollection, states the risks involved and indicates the diver is assuming all risks. Their response clearly points to this liability release. I expect that unless some gross negligence can be proven against Hidden Paradise that they will prevail. Simply having a cold, dark quarry isn't negligent when the customer has signed a liability release.

As to the "lack of equipment to assist inexperienced scuba divers" I expect them to respond (1) that was the instructor's job since she was in training and (2) a responsibility does not exist to provide such equipment and (3) the liability release applies here.

I am interested to see what comes out out of the "lack of safety or rescue equipment" claim.