Woman drowns during training - Hidden Paradise Campground, Indiana

[wmperry]

Did he try to change her BCD while in the water? That seems like it would send up a huge red flag in something I would not do. "Hey you are not sinking due to a defective BC, so go ahead and swap me in water...".. Nah lets go to shore and figure it out.

They probably did go to shore to do the swap, and then he let her get into the water with no staff already in. Assuming this guy was a "reasonably prudent professional" is a huuuge leap to make.

 

[peeweediver]

As happens on this site, few facts and lots of guesses as to the cause. I think we're missing something because much of the guesses don't make sense for an instructor to do. I hope more comes to light so we can learn from this tragedy. What does concern me is having equipment that is defective, coming up with a work-around that, with little facts, seems flawed and still going ahead. As instructors, we need to know when to say, "Not our day, let's come back". What I have noticed over the past few years and very much over the past year is a lack of time to really teach. We have less time given to us in the pool due to Covid protocols and must work through skills in less time with less time to just play with buoyancy and other things. At our quarry, visibility has deteriorated to 5-7 feet and I am more and more nervous about the safety of my students. Some shops now simply go down to the platform, do the skills, swim around the platform as the "tour" come up, brief the next dive while on the surface in the water, descend then repeat. After that, they leave for the day. We seem to be in an ever shrinking time frame for teaching while trying to churn out very competent divers. This may be particular to cold weather environments. Trying not to judge, but I'd retire from teaching before doing that.
It is so saddening to continue to read stories of student fatalities during training dives. Some may be unavoidable (medical) and some may be all stars completely align for tragedy. However, I grow more concerned about my own teaching in light of the pressures placed upon "finishing" as opposed to letting the student spend tons of time actually diving around during the training dives...and the pool. If it gets to the point that I'm just not comfortable and not enjoying myself (certainly the students would not be either), guess it's time to move on.
Sorry, just my two cents, mostly in an attempt to ease my own concerns.

Rob

 

[wmperry]

As happens on this site, few facts and lots of guesses as to the cause. I think we're missing something because much of the guesses don't make sense for an instructor to do. I hope more comes to light so we can learn from this tragedy. What does concern me is having equipment that is defective, coming up with a work-around that, with little facts, seems flawed and still going ahead. As instructors, we need to know when to say, "Not our day, let's come back". What I have noticed over the past few years and very much over the past year is a lack of time to really teach. We have less time given to us in the pool due to Covid protocols and must work through skills in less time with less time to just play with buoyancy and other things. At our quarry, visibility has deteriorated to 5-7 feet and I am more and more nervous about the safety of my students. Some shops now simply go down to the platform, do the skills, swim around the platform as the "tour" come up, brief the next dive while on the surface in the water, descend then repeat. After that, they leave for the day. We seem to be in an ever shrinking time frame for teaching while trying to churn out very competent divers. This may be particular to cold weather environments. Trying not to judge, but I'd retire from teaching before doing that.
It is so saddening to continue to read stories of student fatalities during training dives. Some may be unavoidable (medical) and some may be all stars completely align for tragedy. However, I grow more concerned about my own teaching in light of the pressures placed upon "finishing" as opposed to letting the student spend tons of time actually diving around during the training dives...and the pool. If it gets to the point that I'm just not comfortable and not enjoying myself (certainly the students would not be either), guess it's time to move on.
Sorry, just my two cents, mostly in an attempt to ease my own concerns.

Rob

Absolutely - one of the reasons I do not teach a lot any more is the rise of the 1 weekend of pool work type of class around here. You can churn out someone who is less likely to kill themselves in classes like that, but it is very difficult to create a good, life-long active diver with that type of structure.

Something between the time commitment of GUE Rec1 and the PADI zero-to-hero-weekend-warrior class is sorely needed. But in landlocked states like Indiana, it is hard for a prospective diver to see the benefit of paying twice as much for a class.

 

[wmperry]

As far as all of this being speculation, there are several on this thread who have concrete information, but in today's litigious society... safest to couch it as speculation.

 

[boulderjohn]

Why did padu expell him? What did he wrong? The article reads like it was a medical event

Why did PADI expel its own diving professional? You have to ask PADI for the explanation. But I am pretty sure they will never answer your question. Violating the teaching standard, failure to take due care of the student etc etc etc.

It's pretty obvious why he was expelled. In fact, in most of the cases I have seen of an instructor expelled after a student fatality, the reason is the same--failure to perform proper supervision of the student.

Standards require that a professional (instructor or certified assistant) be with students at all times they are in the water, observing the student and ready to help as needed. Here are two other cases in which an instructor was expelled almost immediately after the incident:

• After the skill portion of a dive, the instructor led a line of divers on a dive in poor visibility, not realizing that the last diver in line had become separated and drowned until they reached the shore.
• Conducting a Discover Scuba dive with 3 divers in poor visibility, the instructor had the 3 all grossly overweighted, which leads to BCDs full of air and difficulty with buoyancy control in shallow water. One of the divers lost buoyancy control and shot to the surface. The instructor went to the surface to get him, leaving the other 2 at the bottom. When he returned for them, one was missing.

 

[peeweediver]

As far as all of this being speculation, there are several on this thread who have concrete information, but in today's litigious society... safest to couch it as speculation.

I hope we can obtain some of the facts for learning purposes but as a reformed lawyer, I understand. Also, as an IU grad way back in '77, hope all is well in Bloomington. Still have my Nick's bucket!

Rob

 

[lowwall]

To be fair... if it was her last dive of certification,

It doesn't matter. The duty of care does not lessen as you get closer to the end of the class. Anyway there is no guarantee that the dive would have resulted in certification. The whole point of the dive is to verify that the student has the necessary skills to dive without supervision. In this case, you have the clearest possible demonstration that she did not.

 

[Lostdiver71]

One of the reasons that I left the dive industry was bad experiences with shops trying to get me to take students diving in unsafe conditions. None of those shops are still in business!

 

[Divin'Papaw]

It doesn't matter. The duty of care does not lessen as you get closer to the end of the class. Anyway there is no guarantee that the dive would have resulted in certification. The whole point of the dive is to verify that the student has the necessary skills to dive without supervision. In this case, you have the clearest possible demonstration that she did not.

I was thinking the same thing. Duty of care is unambiguous and remains unchanged until that certification is issued regardless of whether a student is at pool session #1 or ascending from open water dive #4.

 

[John the Pom]

I may be a dinosaur but, for scuba diving in a wetsuit, I like weight belts! They are simple, robust, everyone knows how to operate them, and you can see at a glance how much weight there is. Now everyone seems to dive with complex, proprietary, "integrated" weight systems, and a couple of weights slipped into the pockets for good measure.

I can remember swapping gear (U/W) with my instructor as part of my O/W course - but with an integrated weights system that would be like swapping weight belts as well! The hazards for two people with a considerable size and weight difference are obvious.