Within Intro standards?

[SuPrBuGmAn]

Interesting. We were heavily discouraged in Cave 1 from going far from the mainline. The idea was that staying on the mainline (or the jump lines in side passages) concentrates the damage from the bubbles in one area. Look, but don't swim there, was the message.

So does that idea go out the window when you take Cave 2? Exploring jumps and sidepassages and the outskirts of larger rooms are all part of the fun once you are trained to do so. Sorry about my bubbles, but I came to see cave. A few runs up a mainline and I'm ready to skirt off to the sides.

 

[TSandM]

No, I think it persists after Cave 2. At that point, you can jump to other lines, but you are still encouraged to stay close to the line in the passage you are diving.

A lot of the ceilings in Mexico are decorated with tiny, fine soda straws. Exhaled bubbles can break these, believe it or not. To preserve the beauty of the ceiling formations, we are strongly advised to stay on the line.

Florida's quite different in that respect.

 

[InkDiver]

The problem here is that there are designated areas within a cave where instructors are allowed to perform lost line drills and such (prevents damage to sensitive areas). You just doing them when you feel like it can ruin a beautiful clay bank for everyone for 100's of years to come. Obviously if a clay bank was ruined in a real life or death situation, who cares, a life is more important - but if it is ruined just to get in some practice......

Don't forget about the safety of others in the system around you as well. Doing a lost line drill in a sensitive area could render a silt out that may effect other teams.

Where did I say anything about doing them wherever I feel. I said we do them in the overhead....actually right where I did them iin training. We were taught about cave conservation in class, and actually, I have enough common sense not to do drills in areas with clay banks.

 

[stairman]

Yea trudging through a clay bank or knocking down soda straws doesnt make sense in a non emergency drill.But having the common sense to keep emergency procedures over rock is a no brainer.In my opinion using line arrows for all the different direction decisions is common sense as well.Just dont let em trip you up:no

 

[GDI]

I was asked to chime in here OK In doing so, I will cover the following areas:

OH Drills/Skills
Conservation
Running a Reel
T's, Y's and Jumps and Gaps (navigation)
AWARENESS
Line Differences.

First lets look at a set of standards from one of the agencies for Intro to cave divers:
NACD Standards & Procedures 2-18
Rev 3/2005
8. SKILLS/ EXERCISES - to be performed in the overhead (cave) environment:
A. Proper finning and propulsion skills.
B. Proper body positioning and buoyancy control.
C. Use of reel and guide line.
D. Touch contact.
E. Air sharing.
F. Communications with light/ hand signals.
G. Familiarization with the cave
H. Use of line arrows.
I. Lost diver procedures.
J. Dive planning.
K. Stress detection and management.
L. Conservation behavior and techniques.
M. Simulated emergencies:
I. Share air while exiting cave
II. Lost visibility, touch contact, team line following
III. Lost visibility, out-of-air, touch contact line following (as the out-of-air diver and the air provider, for a minimum distance of 100 ft. in each position, and to include a minimum of three stations for hand changes on line between students)
IV. Diver lost from team/diver lost from guideline
V. Broken/ lost line
VI. Primary light failure, exit on smallest backup light
VII. Air/ gas valve management. Diver practices turning own valves on/ off, simulate various regulator/ valve failures. (May be done in open water at start or end of dive )
VIII. Simulated line entanglement recommended
NOTE: ALL SIMULATED EMERGENCY DRILLS ARE TO BE PERFORMED AFTER THE
DIVE IS TURNED, DURING THE EXIT.
NOTE: No removal of life support equipment shall be permitted within the overhead
environment. (btw note that a MASk is not considered life support- GDI)
NOTE: Concentrate on developing awareness in the divers. Demand good technique, for the safety, comfort and efficiency of the divers and for the preservation of the cave environment.
9. LIMITS:
A. Penetration/ depth.
Dive one: 600 feet recommended
All succeeding dives: no penetration limit
Depth: 100 ft
B. Air rules - 1/3 air rules may be used for single tank dives. Students using doubles will use the1/6 air rule ( btw note other agencies have different limitations here but no more then 1/3 ever -GDI)
C. Minimum starting visibility thirty (30) feet.
D. Minor restrictions acceptable. (A minor restriction is when divers are prevented from traveling side by side, forces them into single file travel). No major restrictions.
E. It is highly recommended that additional dives be added at this level. The four dives are the minimum.

Ok I think that answers the question of performing skills in the OH. Each Cavern to Cave dive training session is based on Education, Safety, Conservation and Exploration

A Jump or Gap is defined as the connection of two line sections of a cave passage or connecting cave passage so as to maintain a continuous line to the exit. The Jump refers to the connection of two connecting cave passges ( Example: The Cross over Tunnel in Peacock) A Gap refers to the connection of two lines within the same cave passage (Example: The Pothole connection in Peacock, before its current line configuration was made)

A diver who ties into the main line and does not connect to another line has not made a jump or gap. Has the diver positioned themselves in a more complex navigation scenario? Possibly. At Intro level exploration is limited to the main passage and does not include side passages. Within the main passage if the intro diver wants to connect to the main line and then explore that same passage say to the other wall he has violated nothing as he is still within the main original passage. The diver does not need to swim on top of or holding the Gold Line all the time but he does need to know where it is ALL the TIME!

A diver who holds onto the reel having tied onto the main line and explores the same passage while holding that reel has done so solely for security and maintenance of the GOLD guideline. While it would be better to secure a directional arrow to their reel tie- in- point for exit referrence the diver is always expected to have AWARENESS of the GOLD line, the main line and exit direction at Intro level and all cavern to cave levels for that matter.

Gold Line is of a different thickness to reel cave line. It's thicker! Main Line is usually of Gold Line thickness if not the diver needs to make a note of this while penetrating the system from the cavern point onward and communicate it to his dive team.

T's, Y's and Jumps and Gaps: Jumps and Gaps the connection of two permanent lines using a reel is not permitted at Intro level. Non-permanent lines would only be connected if it were an emergency situation. Example a Lost Line and you came upon another line. you might temporarily tie into it to search it for the Gold Line- Environmental AWARENESS is key.

T's and Y's if encountered during the PENETRATION portion of the Intro cave dive must be noted. IF they are a permanent part of the main line system then the Intro diver shall not penetrate further and shall turn the dive to the exit..

Question for thought: Can the the Intro diver still explore that portion of the cave as long as they do not cross over or pass by the T or Y junction until they reach their turn air pressure at which time they would turn the dive?

Answer Yes as long as they have not violated the T or Y junction rule, have maintained AWARENESS of the Main Line with no complex navigation choices and with directional sense to the exit.

If a Intro team encounter a T or Y junction placed by another dive team can they swim past it?

Again Yes BUT they must make note of it and communicate it to all team members. It would not hurt to mark the Gold line for exit referrence. Such a connection may not be there when they come back as the other team has exited, their marker, a line arrow should be OR

What if they may have penetrated and then the T or Y junction was installed by another team behind them, would they stop then? NO they would continue the dive and complete their exit. It's all about AWARENESS and thinking.

Conservation: Always should be on every cave divers mind. You are REsponsible for protecting the cave. If you choose to perform practise skill sets within the overhead then you shall do so in a area that will not cause damage to the caves. Instructors are not mandated to the areas they choose to have students practise and learn skills. They choose the locations to minimize cave damage. Example Lost Line is usually done before the lips in Ginnie, all rock minimal damge as possible, high current so a lesser risk to other divers in the cave should a silt out occur.

Running a Reel: Practise it every chance you get. The fact is many fail to do this after they get certified becasue the GOLD line is so close to the exit point and they think it is a waste of penetration time and nothing will happen to them, they can exit no problem. Yet when the time comes to run that reel they encounter skill fade and anxiety builds up faster and then...

 

[Dive-aholic]

So does that idea go out the window when you take Cave 2? Exploring jumps and sidepassages and the outskirts of larger rooms are all part of the fun once you are trained to do so. Sorry about my bubbles, but I came to see cave. A few runs up a mainline and I'm ready to skirt off to the sides.

Mat, it's a little different in Mexico. My first time down there, we were briefed on some passages that required us to stay over the line. The reason for this is as Lynne pointed out - there are delicate formations on the ceiling that could be damaged by our bubbles. Not all passages in Mexico are like this, but it is good to be aware of it. I certainly don't stay right over the line in any cave, but when diving Mexico caves I look up on the ceiling before venturing off the line.


During our last trip to Mexico, we did a couple of non-guided dives. One dive took us to what I thought was a T. We marked it and head right. It ended up being someone's jump line! We turned around, went back, grabbed our marker, and headed down the main line. During training we didn't encounter anyone's reel line running off the main line. But, again, it's usually a different situation in Florida. Most of Florida's popular caves have gold line in them. Most don't have white line T'd into them in the Intro level penetration distance. The first white line T'd into gold line that I've encountered is 3000' from the entrance to JB. If you're that far back, you better know what you're doing! In Mexico, there isn't that much gold line (that I've seen). Ts have to be treated differently because a lot of the main line is white and anything T'd into it will also be white. There's really not much similarity between Mexico and Florida as far as the way the passages are lined. That's why it's a good idea to get a guide to dive with you whenever you're diving in the place you weren't trained...

 

[SuPrBuGmAn]

Alot can be explained by simply mentioning dive location

So what benefits does the Cave 2 diver have over Cave 1 divers in Mexico? I could guess deco, stages, ect down the mainline?

 

[Dive-aholic]

Alot can be explained by simply mentioning dive location

True, but a few of us know where Lynne has done her training.

So what benefits does the Cave 2 diver have over Cave 1 divers in Mexico? I could guess deco, stages, ect down the mainline?

Cave 1 is pretty much equivalent to Basic/Intro. Cave 2 is equivalent to Full Cave.

 

[Peter Guy]

So what benefits does the Cave 2 diver have over Cave 1 divers in Mexico?

1. Room of Tears (upstream Carwash)

2. Crystal Palace (upstream Carwash)

Getting off the mainline, which you can do with Cave 2, is magical -- and while Lynne will be in Mexican Cave Country a week from today, it will be 6 more months for me!

 

[SuPrBuGmAn]

Cave 1 is pretty much equivalent to Basic/Intro. Cave 2 is equivalent to Full Cave.

I understand that, but if its frowned upon to leave permanant line, some benefits of the higher certification are a bit wasted. Lynn stated that even in Cave 2 they are encouraged to stay on the line. I understand the reasoning behind teaching it with the delicate formations on the ceilings, but atleast to me, that confinement would make me thing twice about advancing further in training - in that area.

Like stated before, this is not an issue in FL, as you can explore(new to you) cave off the line under that level of training.