wing won't float gear!?

[jon m]

for all you pros- i'm a new(er) diver-
thinking of my new wing (35lb lift)...., and weighted with all gear, (with weight "integrated" into pockets that attach to the plate, diving with a steel 100,) then in cold salt water( 7mil wetsuit and gloves ,ect) the lift of the wing will not float the gear at the surface (it will be a couple lbs(3-7 depending on setup) negative...
now, i'm never planning on getting out of my rig AND letting it go at the surface(cause it will sink?!?), BUT are there any other problems i am not taking into account using a setup like this?
i will be using it in fresh,warm water also, were it will(?) float gear at the surface, but in cold salt salt water i need 30lb of weight to get under water, coupled with other gear (lights,fins,harness , ect) it's more than the lift of my wing. i also understand that my wetsuit supplies the needed lift to offset the weight on my "belt"(integrated) , just wondering about the issues i HAVEN'T thought of with this setup, and i can't think of any... am i missing something?!?!?
i'm so used to seeing bc's/bp's with 45-55lb of lift, and i'm wondering if there is a reason???
what about recreational depth? if i dive 120' will the wing be able to compensate for the "crush" of my suit? (or the shrinking of my profile- or the amount of water i offset) would a wing with only 35lb of lift ever NOT be enough (at depth)??
am i a worry wort?!?!?!?
thanks so much!!!
-me

 

[divebri]

although I have a hard time believing that 35 lbs of lift won't float the rig. Have you got 32 lbs. in the weight pockets?

bottom line is that you've GOT to be able to float the rig - and if that entire rig is more than 35 lbs negative there's something really wrong with the picture.

Maybe I'm missing something here - hopefully someone else can handle your question better.

 

[Green_Manelishi]

Depending on the wing, etc. it might not actually have 35lbs of lift at all, or when attached to the rig.

An AL 80 is really only 77 and a steel 72 is really only 65.
Likewise a .38 is really a .357 and a .44 is really a .429.

Sooooo, your 35 wing might not really have 35 lbs of lift.

 

[jon m]

well...
i carry 22lb in weight pockets that attach to the bottom of each side of the plate(quick release)
the plate is 6lb
i need an additional 4-8lb (depending on what i'm carrying/wearing)to get nuetral at surface with 500psi in tank (cold salt water only)
i was wanting to integrate the 8lb into weights that attach to the plate(non-releasable) and be able to drop a couple from the releasable pockets, BUT that could potentially put me at 36-38lb of weight( all attached to the plate), with a wing that only lifts 35lb...
should i just carry 10lb on a belt?
is it safe to carry more weight than your wing lifts?
what are other options if not safe?
any thoughts on lift vs. depth?
thanks!
-me

 

[piikki]

I have a 45 lbs wing. When I load it with SS plate (6lbs), STA 2lbs, my weights (9lbs when diving dry) and a LP8 (-8) it becomes slightly negative in FW (nearly floats but once it goes under it will start sinking). I have hard time figuring out how one reg, harness hardware, one tiny knife, and a Photon Torpedo attached to the harness make up the remaining weight needed to sink it. Disturbing.

 

[bcsean]

a 35lb wing should be enough for what you're doing. If you're worried about floating the rig on it's own and it's not quite enough, consider wearing less weight on the bc and a small weight belt to compensate.

For reference, I'm using a 40lb oxycheq for my twin 120's. I'm not about to take it off in the water, but it's enough to float me at the surface.

The only time you're going to need the lift is at the surface to keep your head out of the water. At depth if weighted properly you shouldn't need a lot of air in the wing.

 

[MSilvia]

thinking of my new wing (35lb lift)...., and weighted with all gear, (with weight "integrated" into pockets that attach to the plate, diving with a steel 100,) then in cold salt water( 7mil wetsuit and gloves ,ect) the lift of the wing will not float the gear at the surface (it will be a couple lbs(3-7 depending on setup) negative...

You and your gear should be very close to neutral at the surface without any air in the wing. If 35 lbs isn't enough to float you, you must be more than 35 lbs overweighted, right? If you can't sink without 30 lbs of lead, it stands to reason that you'll float with 29 lbs, right? That's a 1 lb difference, and a 35 lb wing is more than adequate for providing that. It'll likely have enough lift to pick you out of the water to at least chest height.
You don't need to have lift equal to the weight of your gear. Weight isn't what you need to worry about, it's negative buoyancy. A 1000 lb. styrofoam peanut will not require 1000 lbs of additional lift to stay afloat.

just wondering about the issues i HAVEN'T thought of with this setup, and i can't think of any... am i missing something?!?!?

The big one that comes to my mind is the loss of wetsuit buoyancy at depth. You're going to be overweighted at that depth, so you need to be sure your wing will be able to keep you neutral. The good news is that if it takes 30 lbs to get you down at the surface, a 35 lb wing is probably fine. I used to use 36 lbs with a 2 piece 7mm suit, and never had a problem staying neutral (after I got used to it).

i'm so used to seeing bc's/bp's with 45-55lb of lift, and i'm wondering if there is a reason???

Yeah... people will buy them. Sometimes folks with unusually heavy gear (steel doubles, can light, etc) require them. Some folks like to make sure they have enough lift to assist a buddy with a buoyancy failure, and it can be a good idea for that too. More typically though, it's because lots of divers are usually overweighted, and can get into trouble diving deep that way. Still others figure more lift is better, and will buy all they can get without regard for what they really need, or the downsides of having a wing that's too big.

 

[MSilvia]

The only time you're going to need the lift is at the surface to keep your head out of the water. At depth if weighted properly you shouldn't need a lot of air in the wing.

Since he's diving wet, He'll also need lift to compensate for wetsuit compression at depth, but he should have enough for that. Generally speaking though, if diving deep with steel tanks, a drysuit is a better option.

 

[jon m]

thanks MSilva-
ya , i know i'll be fine at surface because, if nuetral,the wing will provide 35 lb of lift to me and that's more than enough to keep me above the water. i was just concerned that if i take my rig off at the surface, i float like a top (or the above mentioned styrofoam!!!) and my rig goes into the briny blue (if i let it go)... i'm leaning toward wearing a belt (which is what i was DESPERATLY trying to avoid) with 8-10lb in it, so the rig will float if i ever take it off at the surface( i was thinking taking it off to get on a boat)
any other thoughts?
btw- my buddy owns the steel 100's and all my weighting is geared to them. when i rent tanks, they'll be alum 80's. how much weight am i gonna need to add for them( generally speaking)??
you chaps are all right!
-me

 

[MSilvia]

huh what?