wing won't float gear!?

[piikki]

i think we were talking about the rig floating on its own without the diver attached

 

[JeffG]

huh what?

huh chooooo

gazoontite

 

[MSilvia]

i think we were talking about the rig floating on its own without the diver attached

Yeah... okay. I can see it being a problem if you plan to have your rig in the water without you in it if it won't float without you. If you plan to do that, put some weight on a belt or something.

huh chooooo

gazoontite

Thanks Jeff.

 

[jon m]

sorry my first post wasn't clear!

 

[cool_hardware52]

One of the reasons I recommend against mounting all of your ballast on your rig (cold water diving) is it can require a larger wing than would otherwise be necessary. If you put some of your ballast on your person (4-8 lbs) in a weight belt that's weight your wing need not float if you doff it at the surface.

A 4-8 lbs weight belt is not uncomfortable.


Tobin

 

[cool_hardware52]

well...
i carry 22lb in weight pockets that attach to the bottom of each side of the plate(quick release)
the plate is 6lb
i need an additional 4-8lb (depending on what i'm carrying/wearing)to get nuetral at surface with 500psi in tank (cold salt water only)
i was wanting to integrate the 8lb into weights that attach to the plate(non-releasable) and be able to drop a couple from the releasable pockets, BUT that could potentially put me at 36-38lb of weight( all attached to the plate), with a wing that only lifts 35lb...
should i just carry 10lb on a belt?
is it safe to carry more weight than your wing lifts?
what are other options if not safe?
any thoughts on lift vs. depth?
thanks!
-me

Jon,

Are you using 22lb + 6 lbs SS plate and harness + regulator + a HP 100?

Thats about 34 lbs of ballast with a near empty cylinder. That's a lot of weight. Are you sure you need 34 lbs?

Have you actually tried building up your rig and floating it with your wing, or are you just estimating?

Tobin

 

[*Floater*]

Take a look at this article: How Much Lead Do You Need?

 

[cool_hardware52]

for all you pros- i'm a new(er) diver-
thinking of my new wing (35lb lift)...., and weighted with all gear, (with weight "integrated" into pockets that attach to the plate, diving with a steel 100,) then in cold salt water( 7mil wetsuit and gloves ,ect) the lift of the wing will not float the gear at the surface (it will be a couple lbs(3-7 depending on setup) negative...
now, i'm never planning on getting out of my rig AND letting it go at the surface(cause it will sink?!?), BUT are there any other problems i am not taking into account using a setup like this?
i will be using it in fresh,warm water also, were it will(?) float gear at the surface, but in cold salt salt water i need 30lb of weight to get under water, coupled with other gear (lights,fins,harness , ect) it's more than the lift of my wing. i also understand that my wetsuit supplies the needed lift to offset the weight on my "belt"(integrated) , just wondering about the issues i HAVEN'T thought of with this setup, and i can't think of any... am i missing something?!?!?
i'm so used to seeing bc's/bp's with 45-55lb of lift, and i'm wondering if there is a reason???
what about recreational depth? if i dive 120' will the wing be able to compensate for the "crush" of my suit? (or the shrinking of my profile- or the amount of water i offset) would a wing with only 35lb of lift ever NOT be enough (at depth)??
am i a worry wort?!?!?!?
thanks so much!!!
-me

Jon,

After posting two replies here I started to think you name sounded familar.

You and I had a long detailed discussion about these very concerns before you ordered your gear.

I explained in why most jackets have 45+ pounds of lift. Jackets are for the most part "one lift for all applications" there seldom any distinction made about where they are used, and how much exposure protection is being used.

In addition most jackets are designed to float the diver well out of the water. That requires more lift as any portion of the BC that's out of the water does not contribute to the buoyancy. For example if the diver needed 30 lbs of lift, but a 3rd of the bc i above the water a fully inflated 45 lb bc is required.

It is assumed in a bp & wing you won't need to float with your sternum out of the water.

Have you verified what the initial buoyancy of your exposure suit is? Remember your suit cannot loose more buoyancy than it started with.

Have you done a careful weight check as per my recommendations, i.e. eyelevel at the surface with an empty wing and a full cylinder?



Tobin

 

[jon m]

ahh Tobin, you got me!!!!
i'm estimating using what i've worn in the past... i will actually be in the water this weekend to dial in my weight ( with your rig). i'll be using 22lb on the plate(maximum the pockets will carry, hopefully won't need it... the less the better) and the plate(6lb) i will also have a weight belt avavilable to add any needed weight. i finally have ALL my gear that i'll be using (congratulate me!) and i won't be renting NO MORE! so once i get dialed in, i won't have to adjust it (for local cold water conditions)
it will be fresh water this weekend (52F...brrrr)getting bouyancy down- so i think i'll get a pretty good idea where i need to be in cold saltwater (+1lb for every 40lb of diver and gear is what i've heard, is this accurate?) i was probably over weighted in rental gear, but i don't want to spend my time in monterey trying to figure out how much weight i need (within a lb or two would be great). also, all my previous diving was done with a bc, and i have a feeling i'll be dropping a pound or two with the more streamlined/less bulky bp (less water displacement=less bouyant?)
if you could help or point me the way with the difference in weighting (real lbs) of a steel100 compared to an alum80 that would be great!
also, let me know if my limited experience with bouyancy is accurate such as -add 1lb weights for every 40lb of diver and gear to convert fresh water to salt water weighting if using all the same gear, and- less water displaced ( hog bp) will be less bouyant than a bulkier rig(bc)
sorry T- it's just hard to figure all this out when you are using different bc's,suits and gear everytime! but (as above) i don't have to worry about that anymore!
-me
thanks again!!!

 

[*Floater*]

i was probably over weighted in rental gear, but i don't want to spend my time in monterey trying to figure out how much weight i need (within a lb or two would be great). also, all my previous diving was done with a bc, and i have a feeling i'll be dropping a pound or two with the more streamlined/less bulky bp (less water displacement=less bouyant?)

I take it you have the DSS Torus 35?

Just do this: At the end of the dive during your final safety stop, say at 10 ft., tilt butt up and squeeze the rear arc of the wing to check if there's any gas there. If there is, then you have more lead than you need so throw away a few pounds for the next dive. Then repeat until your wing is basically empty on the final stop (with almost empty tank). If you have a lot of gas left in the tank at the end then purge the reg until you only have 300 psi or so remaining on that final safety stop before ascending to surface. This is what I do when I'm traveling and don't have the chance to do a weight check pre-dive.