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Will I ever dive deep on helium?
- Thread starter GreenDiverDown
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100days-a-year
Contributor
Depends on who you ask....some of our EU mates dive 50M on air .I have been to 150 or so spearfishing,but I wouldn't go much deeper.The task loading gets to be a problem.It's just a case of "how important is it really?"I can save you some money tho.....take your mix courses from whoever you trust that is inexpensive,subscribe to DIRQuest and techdiver,ask away and find some buddies to do it with you to hedge costs.There isn't a whole lot learned in class..it's learned by experience.I took clsses from an independent IANTD instructor and saved bundles,made a new buddy with years of diving experience and spent the savings on gear and diving.
Diving with heliox to 165ft is safer than air, becouse helium is one of the less narcotic gasses. There is though, a nasty problem with heliox, called HPNS (I might be mixing names here), but I belive it kicks in only on deeper areas than the spoken of 165 ft. I have a friend that worked in an oil rig and used heliox at about 200 M (over 600ft), and is still alive.
Better though than heliox, for the depths of up to 100 M is trimix, becouse it cuts some in the stops due to the use of three different gasses. I belive also, that trimix gas is cheaper, since helium is the costier among these gases.
A problem with Helium is it's heat conductivity, which is relatively high, so you lose more heat when breathing it.
AS for the education-I'd go as 100-days said. Seems sensible enough. Get the initial c-card somewhere and do the most part of the learning yourself (assuming, you are already a technical diver).
Better though than heliox, for the depths of up to 100 M is trimix, becouse it cuts some in the stops due to the use of three different gasses. I belive also, that trimix gas is cheaper, since helium is the costier among these gases.
A problem with Helium is it's heat conductivity, which is relatively high, so you lose more heat when breathing it.
AS for the education-I'd go as 100-days said. Seems sensible enough. Get the initial c-card somewhere and do the most part of the learning yourself (assuming, you are already a technical diver).
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100days-a-year
Contributor
Steven,my only suggestion if you're already comfortable doing it would be to limit the dives as you said to low stress stuff.The commercial spearfishermen here do 130 to 180 on occassion,but even for a living they prefer no overhead,good vis and low current.These guys are very exteme examples of what is possible,but there is decided cost/benefit ratio here.I am a weinie and admit it freely.I do this purely for fun.
uwsince79
Guest
First off, I hate to state this but the GUE is not the end all. There are a lot of excellent Technical Instructors out there, If you email me I will send you a few who I consider to be top I the field regardless if they are GUE, TDI, etc. (I feel GUE has it's own set of issues.) As for equipment and DIR. I have found that DIR is a trend. If it is successful and helps save you or your buddies life it is going to be accepted. The GUE does not have to stamp it for it to be true. It will cost you to get good training but you dont have to go and sell the dog. Find an Instructor, ask around, find out who is diving what, and how often. You might be surprised. Ocean and Cave are very different and are a different level of diver. What do you want to dive, find out then let the guys that you are researching know what you want to dive.
Second. HPNS is a Heliox issue @ 500 FSW and better.
I too have dove past the 200fsw mark on air more often than I would like to admit. But after diving He, would never do it again. It is truly amazing the difference in clarity. And if you are a physics or math fan you will be amazed at it decompression properties.
As for finding the gas, ask any long time tech head and they will let you know where to get it.
If you are looking to dive deep Helium is the only way. On the other hand a lot of divers are switching to He on the 100+ level too. (Catch a lot more lobsters that way, its amazing)
Liquid you stated, "A problem with Helium is it's heat conductivity, which is relatively high, so you lose more heat when breathing it. "
This is incorrect, you do not transfer any accelerated levels of heat through breathing the gas He. If you insulate with the gas, it is a high conductor and you will lose body heat. So if youre not in the tropics don't fill your dry suit with it.
Hope this add a little light to the topic.
Another Divers Opinion
Second. HPNS is a Heliox issue @ 500 FSW and better.
I too have dove past the 200fsw mark on air more often than I would like to admit. But after diving He, would never do it again. It is truly amazing the difference in clarity. And if you are a physics or math fan you will be amazed at it decompression properties.
As for finding the gas, ask any long time tech head and they will let you know where to get it.
If you are looking to dive deep Helium is the only way. On the other hand a lot of divers are switching to He on the 100+ level too. (Catch a lot more lobsters that way, its amazing)
Liquid you stated, "A problem with Helium is it's heat conductivity, which is relatively high, so you lose more heat when breathing it. "
This is incorrect, you do not transfer any accelerated levels of heat through breathing the gas He. If you insulate with the gas, it is a high conductor and you will lose body heat. So if youre not in the tropics don't fill your dry suit with it.
Hope this add a little light to the topic.
Another Divers Opinion
Helium may be used as a substitute for nitrogen to dilute oxygen for deep water diving. It is colorless, odorless, tasteless, and chemically inert. However, it is more expensive than nitrogen and drains body heat from a diver. In diving with rapid compression, the helium-oxygen mixture may produce nausea, dizziness , and trembling, but these adverse reactions are less severe than nitrogen narcosis.
TAM Dive
Registered
Trimix............ultamitely............you dive with a clearer head, this is a good thing...........you just don't know when crap is going to happen, having a clear head, and knowing your buddy is clear headed................the question is what value to you place on your life if'n you are going to do the diving you discribe???
I did a number of dives this past summer with a buddy who has a real narcosis issue starting at about 125ft. One dive on a wreck at 150ft, in 38degree F water, I had my mask knocked off. I was wearing, thick drygloves, and a ice cap+7mm hood, there was now way I was going to get that mask back on properly with out help(just couldn't get that seal). When that water hit my face it took my breath away. being Clear headed, and a buddy with his wits about him, we delt with it, and then carried on with the dive.
The mix we used was 25he, 25 O2. which gave us a dive equal to diving at 80ft on air, doing 30 minute bottom times, very conservative profile. We used 50% nitrox starting at 50ft. for deco gas. This combination knocked 20minutes off the deco time required had we been on air, good thing considering the water temps we dive in up in Canada.
Oh ya, I do own the Abyss planning software (worth every penny), and mix my own gas..........the software is amazing, and having it loaded on a lap top made it usable out on the field, generating tables, and calculating the mixes for my buddy and I.
So even though it was minor event (mask accident) at 150ft..........the complications with narcosis??? it's anyone guess.
my 2cents
john
I did a number of dives this past summer with a buddy who has a real narcosis issue starting at about 125ft. One dive on a wreck at 150ft, in 38degree F water, I had my mask knocked off. I was wearing, thick drygloves, and a ice cap+7mm hood, there was now way I was going to get that mask back on properly with out help(just couldn't get that seal). When that water hit my face it took my breath away. being Clear headed, and a buddy with his wits about him, we delt with it, and then carried on with the dive.
The mix we used was 25he, 25 O2. which gave us a dive equal to diving at 80ft on air, doing 30 minute bottom times, very conservative profile. We used 50% nitrox starting at 50ft. for deco gas. This combination knocked 20minutes off the deco time required had we been on air, good thing considering the water temps we dive in up in Canada.
Oh ya, I do own the Abyss planning software (worth every penny), and mix my own gas..........the software is amazing, and having it loaded on a lap top made it usable out on the field, generating tables, and calculating the mixes for my buddy and I.
So even though it was minor event (mask accident) at 150ft..........the complications with narcosis??? it's anyone guess.
my 2cents
john
100-days-
Heat conductivity IS a problem with helium. When diving, a part of the heat we lose is through the respiratory system. When diving with air, 80% of the "mixture" is niterogen, wich is one of the insulative materials (it is used in wet-suits for example). Helium, on the other hand is one of the more heat conductive, resulting in faster heat loss (about 15% I belive, but don't catch me on that). When diving in tropical waters, it dosent matter, ofcourse, but when diving in colder areas it may make quite a difference.
Another issue with different gasses is the rate with wich they travel through the blood into the lung to be removed. each gas has it's own speed rate, and I do not know currently the figures, but I may ask a friend and post it.
A big problem with helium is cost, it's about 50$ per tank of helium and it is a consideration despite everything.
Diving on air to depths greater than 120ft is to surely risk seriouse seriouse narcosis, and trimix is a great solution for this problem (better than heliox, as here you have 2 different deluters for the oxigen). However some people do like to be narked from time to time (well, it is kinda fun, I got to admit) so not everyone will use it. Again it's a question of costs here as well, as you need special training to use trimix and heliox, and the gas cost is expansive. BUT- this is the safest way to dive for more than 120ft and come back to tell about it.
P.S-
I'm sorry, but I'm not the one to ask for hard evidence, as I am to lazy, and do not know how to find it on the net as good as several others (got to admit I admire lost-yoopers for alwaise finding good sources on the web, thats about the only good thing about him
)
Heat conductivity IS a problem with helium. When diving, a part of the heat we lose is through the respiratory system. When diving with air, 80% of the "mixture" is niterogen, wich is one of the insulative materials (it is used in wet-suits for example). Helium, on the other hand is one of the more heat conductive, resulting in faster heat loss (about 15% I belive, but don't catch me on that). When diving in tropical waters, it dosent matter, ofcourse, but when diving in colder areas it may make quite a difference.
Another issue with different gasses is the rate with wich they travel through the blood into the lung to be removed. each gas has it's own speed rate, and I do not know currently the figures, but I may ask a friend and post it.
A big problem with helium is cost, it's about 50$ per tank of helium and it is a consideration despite everything.
Diving on air to depths greater than 120ft is to surely risk seriouse seriouse narcosis, and trimix is a great solution for this problem (better than heliox, as here you have 2 different deluters for the oxigen). However some people do like to be narked from time to time (well, it is kinda fun, I got to admit) so not everyone will use it. Again it's a question of costs here as well, as you need special training to use trimix and heliox, and the gas cost is expansive. BUT- this is the safest way to dive for more than 120ft and come back to tell about it.
P.S-
I'm sorry, but I'm not the one to ask for hard evidence, as I am to lazy, and do not know how to find it on the net as good as several others (got to admit I admire lost-yoopers for alwaise finding good sources on the web, thats about the only good thing about him
)
100days-a-year
Contributor
sorry liquid ,it wasn't me.I dive mix.I know about the thermal conductivity.It is primarily an issue tho as a inflation gas for a drysuit that it's conductivity can be felt.rstone....descent rate is immaterial for recreational dives on mix.I consider less than 500'still doable by a regular guy with a little support.HPNS(what you described)is usually only an issue deeper than that.There are several divers on this board that scooter down on deep dives using mix.Most software figures either instantaneous or 100fpm descent some as slow as 60fpm.I personally dive bomb,as I wan't to see the bottom.I'll spend enough time on the way up in the water column.
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