Why the dislike of air integrated computers?

[AfterDark]

I will agree with you when you can use an AI without a back up standard SPG for any dive, anywhere, any time. Until then, as long as you guys (including me) observe that they go TU frequently enough that a standard spg is recommended as a back up, you can not argue a position that admits an inferiority in terms of reliability.

Last time I checked we only have an electric stove, my wife does not keep a spare gas stove under the counter but many people will definitely state that gas cooks better than electric, so there you go. Most vehicles with power steering will steer, albeit with some difficulty, if the pump fails, can you still read remaining gas with an AI spg function when it fails?

N

I left that out of my post but, yeah toting more gear is a good thing? It does fit right in with my opinion that the technology is not ready for diving yet. I still use the same MKV regulator I bought in 1968, never in 2049 dives has that regulator failed, some minor free flows now and then fixed with the adjustment knob but never yes never has that reg caused me to miss a dive. When AI's get to that level of reliability they'll be ready IMO. The same goes for rebreathers for the same reason. The more hi-tech hardware they use the more failure points they create. I'll be long gone before the technology is ready.

 

[boulderjohn]

I bought an air integrated computer (Suunto Cobra) in 1999 and then participated in my first ScubaBoard debate about air integration shortly after joining in 2004. I loved my Cobra, and I explained why in those threads. A number of years later, I started tech training with an agency that was of the "computers are the spawn of the devil" variety. I got used to using a plain SPG. I had to use multiple SPGs for multiple tanks, which made using air integration problematic. It also made it unnecessary, since the SPGs for those tanks were right in front of me.

When I do single tank recreational diving today, it feels like no big deal to reach down and pull up the SPG a few times during the dive. I am no longer associated with my former tech agency, and I do use a computer. It is not air integrated. It would be more convenient to have the air information appear on the computer screen on my wrist, but not so much more so that I feel any real compulsion to get one. I just don't feel I need it enough to spend the money on it or to get a computer model I don't like in order to add that feature.

On the other hand, the arguments I made back when I used that Cobra are still valid, and I can see perfectly well why a user would prefer it. In fact, I sold that 1999 Cobra at a very good price to one of my best friends after he became certified, and I did so in good conscience. He loves it.

For the life of me I can't see why anyone gets impassioned either way.

 

[RJP]

yeah toting more gear is a good thing?

To put the "toting along more gear" burden that a computer transmitter represents into a realistic context, here's my standard travel scuba gear, laid out to pack for a week in Bonaire back in December:

Imagine how much easier my life would be if I didn't have to "tote along" that transmitter!

 

[AfterDark]

To put the "toting along more gear" burden that a computer transmitter represents into a realistic context, here's my standard travel scuba gear, laid out to pack for a week in Bonaire back in December:

Imagine how much easier my life would be if didn't have to "tote along" that transmitter!

Not the transmitter, the spg and hose some are carrying because the AI technology isn't up to the job on its own. I already use an spg don't see what I gain by spending $1000.00+ for an AI setup and STILL use my spg.
Did you miss the point on purpose just to post that picture?

 

[RJP]

Not the transmitter, the spg and hose some are carrying because the AI technology isn't up to the job on its own. I already use an spg don't see what I gain by spending $1000.00+ for an AI setup and STILL use my spg.
Did you miss the point on purpose just to post that picture?

You know, it's funny. As I was posting the first picture I thought to myself "Will AfterDark reply 'I meant the SPG!' in a post that would make one of us look kind of silly."

Feel better now?



Of course, no one is saying that anyone who is happy with their current gear must buy an AI computer/transmitter. That would be far, far sillier than the suggestion that "toting along extra gear" is a meaningful reason NOT to get one.

 

[tbone1004]

Seabear has their H3 on crazy sale right now, priced basically the same as the Petrel. If you think you might want AI and are buying a new computer, and can wait until mid-November to get AI, then the Seabear would be a wise choice this weekend.
https://www.divegearexpress.com/subgravity-seabear-h3

 

[scubadada]

Not the transmitter, the spg and hose some are carrying because the AI technology isn't up to the job on its own. I already use an spg don't see what I gain by spending $1000.00+ for an AI setup and STILL use my spg.
Did you miss the point on purpose just to post that picture?

Thanks RJP, I dive a primary AI and a backup computer and SPG. I will never miss a single dive or a series of dives. I've never needed the backups but am glad I have them. What's your backup plan AfterDark, abandon the dive, go to tables for the series? Good for you

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

I dunno, I don't really see the point for me personally to get something like that. A simple SPG on the left hip combined with a BT, or now a simple Mares Puck, works just fine and I'm in only a few hundred dollars, not $$$$. For me the money could be used better elsewhere.
I don't have anything against people using dive computers one way or the other, I'm just cheap, and for the types of dives I do these days there would be no practical point.
If someone has the money and is into that sort of thing great, spend away, but we'll be doing the same dives.

I personally don't like the idea of relying 100% on computer technology.
I think of the Asiana Airline crash in SF where the pilots were letting the computer fly the plane and getting erroneous info. When they finally snapped out of their trance and realized it was too late, they were too low and too slow. I spoke with a few commercial pilots after that incident and they said that in the US (US trained pilots), that that never would have happened. They are trained to actually fly the plane "by the seat of their pants" (to quote one pilot) for takeoffs and landings.

That's really the only fundamental problem I have with computer technology is that I believe it is leading to a helplessly digital dependent society, which I know so much is run by computers now, but in the context of diving I think it's a little much sometimes. Some of technology seems to be there "because they can", and I think some of it borders on gimmickry. Basic recreational profiles aren't rocket science.
I prefer to stay a little more cognitive about my diving and use my timer as a guide to air usage. I also think about my depths and keep a mental log of where I've been and how long about Maybe after a time I might glance at the SPG to see where it's at and usually my hunch is within a few hundred PSI. And after glancing at my computer for remaining NDL I'm usually in the park with my mental estimate. It's like not looking at a clock all day but you have a sense of what time it is, then you look at a clock and you were right. I think it's great to have this sense and not to lose it. Maybe some call it "situational awareness" as it relates to dive profiles.
I've dove with people who stare at their computer constantly or look at their SPG every 30 seconds and are always paranoid. They need to relax and think back about how long their dives last with the tank they have and the depth average of the dive. They need to look at the big picture of the structure of the actual dive at hand and realize that their full gas supply isn't going to be depleted in the first 10 minutes of the dive when nothing really has changed from the dive before when their supply lasted an hour.

And the "one less hose" argument with a transmitter , really?
Yeah OK, one less hose. My SPG has never gotten in the way, and If I'm going to get rid of a hose it will be the octo hose or the wing LP hose (or both) since I solo dive and have no one to give a spare second stage to, and sometimes dive with no wing so no LP hose needed.

 

[The Chairman]

This thread has taught me one thing: If you're a cheap assed diver, then hoseless AI is not for you!

 

[dmoore19]

It's a matter of personal preference. If you want to back it up with an SPG nobody will stop you. If you don't find value in having your pressure displayed with other dive information then use the SPG. Computers have improved, so has AI and the transmitters. I am perfectly comfortable with using AI and no spg backup. I can abort the dive knowing if the transmitter is bad, I have an spg backup in the bag on the boat.