Why such a hassle to get Nitrox in MA?

[RIOceanographer]

Two things:

1. I was under the impression that many (if not most) folks around don't have O2-clean tanks for very practical reasons. It's silly to use Nitrox for mostly all shore dives, where one can hardly reach 50 fsw.

No argument there. But it does limit your options to an EAN mix less than or equal to what they have banked, that is all I am trying to point out.

2. SSD has always banked 39-40% Nitrox. Al's new rule is that they will not be filling regular tanks to more than 36%, but will fill ponies to whatever is available in the bank. Demand has nothing to do with it - they plan to continue downmixing for anything but 39%.

Well... if he is banking 39% but will only fill 36%.... you got me. Perhaps you misunderstood him?

 

[oceancurrent]

Thanks for the info, Steve. Let me know if you decide to start banking 40%. I have no problem paying $10 for 40% and downmixing it later myself - it's simple math.

I must admit, I do not need 36%+ most of the time, but would like to have the option open anyways for the occasional 60-80ft dive. I guess, I am a bit steemed over Al's BS story the other day.

Matt and RIOceanographer - I think the real demand for Nitrox is at 32%. That's what most folks use around. So why not cap the premixed at 32% then? Also, is downmixing a hard or time-taking task?

Hmm... I don't think I misunderstood Al. He was perfectly clear - 36% top for regular tanks and 39-40% for ponies. He only has one bank of premixed, which is 39%. That's why I took to heart the silly reason he gave me for his new policy.

 

[RIOceanographer]

As for Matt and RIOceanographer - I think the real demand for Nitrox is at 32%. That's what most folks use around. So why not cap the premixed at 32% then? Also, is downmixing a hard or time-taking task?

No it isn't that hard, but it still takes more time than filling straight off the bank and it is human nature to not want to do any more work than you have to.

And be careful what you suggest.... I was out in Hawaii and 32% or air were the only mixes the operation I was diving with would provide. The local shops read these posts, so you might be giving them ideas, and then you'll really be ranting.

 

[SteveAD]

No it isn't that hard, but it still takes more time than filling straight off the bank and it is human nature to not want to do any more work than you have to.


That is why I bank 36, and the reason for the pricing structure, keep a popular blend on tap, fill is as easy as air 10 bucks. I have to dwnblend 15 bucks, I expect the majority of folks who will be wanting 36 would rather not pay for a downblend so the few can get 40, but like I said if there is enough demand my mind can be changed.

 

[MSilvia]

I think the real demand for Nitrox is at 32%. That's what most folks use around. So why not cap the premixed at 32% then?

PADI publishes a table for EAN36, which creates a demand for EAN36. By virtue of the tables, EAN32 and EAN36 are often considered "standard" mixes.

 

[oceancurrent]

And be careful what you suggest.... I was out in Hawaii and 32% or air were the only mixes the operation I was diving with would provide. The local shops read these posts, so you might be giving them ideas, and then you'll really be ranting.

LOL. I should stock some more ammo then. :bigun2:

B.w. I know one local diver who keeps her own compressor at home and does her own mixes. Isn't that crazy? Hmm...

Matt, the 32 and 36 are considered standard because NOAA uses them, not because of PADI. They are also known as NOAA Nitrox I and II. Most people don't use the tables anyways, but rely on their Nitrox-enabled gadgets (within recreational diving)

 

[MSilvia]

B.w. I know one local diver who keeps her own compressor at home and does her own mixes. Isn't that crazy? Hmm...

Only one? I know of several who do, but when you dive trimix and high ppo2 mixes, your options for getting LDS fills (especially for a reasonable price) are kind of limited. A compressor at home is only crazy if you don't use it enough to make it cost effective.

 

[MSilvia]

Matt, the 32 and 36 are considered standard because NOAA uses them, not because of PADI. They are also known as NOAA Nitrox I and II

True, but I doubt many recreational divers request EAN36 because they saw it in the NOAA Dive manual. PADI almost certainly got their data on EAN36 from NOAA, but it was PADI and not NOAA that taught recreational divers to expect it.

 

[oceancurrent]

PADI does not advocate the use of EANx36 exclusively. They publish two tables - one for 32 and one for 36. They also teach divers to compute EAD for any mix and have a table for this. They only cap recreational Nitrox to 40% - that's all. The reason being that 40% is the cutoff for the (navy) O2-clean equiment requirement and that higher mixes are not really practical for single-stage diving.

Anyways, I hope you are not advocating here a cap of 36% for recreational Nitrox.

Steve - A (friendly) question for you... How are you planning on gauging the demand for 36%+ premixed when you are not offering it as an option?

 

[cerich]

This reminds me that Nitrox certification for recreational divers was introduced by PADI in the 90s after a fiersome debate in their community. Many "experts" foreshadowed that letting recreational divers use Nitrox will result in a lot of accidents - O2 Tox and Bends. Nothing like this happened and, low and behold, Enriched Air Diver became PADI's most popular specialty. Still, there are a lot of old school boys out there who feel strongly against Nitrox, I guess.

OMG!!! That is one of the funniest things I've seen an Instructor say yet!!! PADI certainly did not introduce Nitrox for recreational divers, they only played after virtually every other recreational agency was teaching Nitrox and virtually every PADI instr. was teaching nitrox thru one of those other agencies!

Just from a guy who has been teaching Nitrox since 94....

BTW, Al at Southshore is an excellent person, diver and instructor, I can't help but think there is something we don't know here.

Best,

Chris