Why Rebreathers?
- Thread starter Shawley
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H2Andy
Contributor
"in cave diving" is quite a bit of a qualifier, don't you think?
since ... what ... about 5% of all diving is cave diving?
(the 5% is just a SWAG*)
*SWAG: Scientific WIld Ass GUess
since ... what ... about 5% of all diving is cave diving?
(the 5% is just a SWAG*)
*SWAG: Scientific WIld Ass GUess
Why do you think I put the smilie there?
Ok, seriously, the answer is they are more complicated, more dangerous, and more safe.
They are more dangerous to the untrained and/or underqualified. They are more safe to the trained and qualified.
And you won't catch me in a cave on open circuit. That crap is too dangerous.
By the "simpler is safer" reasoning, a hang glider is safer to fly than a commercial airliner. Certainly, this is not the case. The jet is more complex but is safer. It also has several backups built into its system so that this compensates for its complexity.
Yes, rebreathers are more complex, but that does not mean that they are more dangerous. They are just more complex pieces of equipment. They also have many features that make them even safer than open circuit diving to the trained and diligent diver.
Yes, rebreathers are more complex, but that does not mean that they are more dangerous. They are just more complex pieces of equipment. They also have many features that make them even safer than open circuit diving to the trained and diligent diver.
H2Andy
Contributor
of course it is
try crashing at 20 mph and at 140 mph
which one do you think you're more likely to survive?
i'd happily fly my Cessna and crash land it at 40 knots any day
now, try that on a jet, and you'll be a brick at around 140 knots
to put it another way, you can get into trouble faster with a jet than flying a hand glider, and the consequences will be direr because of the increased speed
and you have to know a lot more to fly the jet safely; you can't possibly fly a jet safely with the attention needed to fly a hand glider safely
on the other hand, the skills needed to fly a jet will suffice amply to fly a simple hand glider safely
(and thank you for making my point, which unfortunately you don't seem to see)
of course it does
they can kill you a lot faster because they are more complex and will go wrong in ways scuba does not
this is just such basic logic i am not sure how you can't follow it
which leads me to believe you simply don't want to follow it
in which case i am wasting my time
H2Andy
Contributor
and if several people i can name had been wearing scuba, they wouldn't have died in shallow pools trying out their rebreathers
in your case, you are talking about an external danger (silt out)
in my case, i am talking about the dangers inherent to the equipment you are using
inherently, rebreathers have dangers which don't exist with scuba. they are more complex and demanding pieces of equipment, and they can kill you in ways scuba can't
and this time, i mean it .. this is it for me on this subject
if you don't get the difference by now, ain't nothing i can do to help you
Lets make a quick hypothetical comparison for a failure scenario:
Let's say we have 2 divers, doing a recreational dive, within NDL limits at 100 feet. We have an very safe OC diver, and a CCR diver. Let's say each have an LP hose fail
The OC diver, has perhaps 20 seconds at most to resolve this problem before they are out of breathing gas. They need to immediatly secure another source of breathing gas, weather it be from a buddy, pony bottle, or second reg if they have enough sense to dive with an H-valve. If they are lucky, and nothing else goes wrong, they can survive to the surface.
The CCR diver has an LP hose blow. Let's say it's on the diluent side. The CCR diver has a number of options to deal with this problem - including continuing the dive as planned. Let's say this CCR diver is very unlucky, and has 3 more failures, including failure of their O2 reg, an both handsets decide to crap out. There are still multiple options for dealing with this.
How do you think our OC diver would fair with 4 failures, albeit un-likely as it is?
Yeah, people die on CCR for doing things they shouldn't - forgetting to turn a unit on, and forgetting to put a scrubber in place, or repacking scrubber material, whatever the cause -all the result of diver error.
Let's say we have 2 divers, doing a recreational dive, within NDL limits at 100 feet. We have an very safe OC diver, and a CCR diver. Let's say each have an LP hose fail
The OC diver, has perhaps 20 seconds at most to resolve this problem before they are out of breathing gas. They need to immediatly secure another source of breathing gas, weather it be from a buddy, pony bottle, or second reg if they have enough sense to dive with an H-valve. If they are lucky, and nothing else goes wrong, they can survive to the surface.
The CCR diver has an LP hose blow. Let's say it's on the diluent side. The CCR diver has a number of options to deal with this problem - including continuing the dive as planned. Let's say this CCR diver is very unlucky, and has 3 more failures, including failure of their O2 reg, an both handsets decide to crap out. There are still multiple options for dealing with this.
How do you think our OC diver would fair with 4 failures, albeit un-likely as it is?
Yeah, people die on CCR for doing things they shouldn't - forgetting to turn a unit on, and forgetting to put a scrubber in place, or repacking scrubber material, whatever the cause -all the result of diver error.
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