Why not go to 100' ?

[CuzzA]

And wouldn't you know, this was posted a few minutes ago... CESA saved her life (Although there's some confusion as to what stage failed)....

Bonaire accident issues Close Call

 

[DevonDiver]

CESA or BESA at any depth could be dangerous, but being OOG for whatever reason (could be no fault of the diver) and NOT knowing how to reach the surface will in fact be deadly every single time.

The fact is... if a diver finds themselves without a gas supply underwater... they will instinctively head for the surface. We, as divers, don't need CESA training to teach us to swim upwards....because the ascent is gonna happen, you know it.

What CESA training provides is the controlled element. That we should attempt to control our speed of ascent... that we must retain an open-airway throughout that ascent....and that we must establish positive buoyancy on the surface.

I'd love an explanation how it could be "obsolete and dangerous" to teach divers the principles:

1. Don't hold your breath on ascent
2. Ascend slowly and in a controlled manner
3. Get buoyant (oral inflate/drop weights) at the surface.

Teaching divers those three critical elements substantially improves their chance of survival if, for any reason, they find themselves out of gas at depth... and their only resolution is to head immediately to the surface.

I will state again, because it doesn't seem to translate well into French... that CESA is your last resort when there is no alternative air source... no buddy, no redundant gas... nothing... and the surface is your only option for getting breathing air (and continued living).

The BESA is for any scenario where the diver is unsure that they can retain consciousness on a CESA. It ensures that they will reach the surface if they pass out en-route. Basically, it's nothing more than the knowledge that if you have no air supply and doubt you might reach the surface, drop your weights.

 

[CuzzA]

I agree with you Andy and it most certainly should be taught IMO.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Another thing to consider, and I am addressing this in my new book to some degree, is that clear, warm, tropical water can have the effect of lowering a person's guard when it comes to deeper dives.

I have seen this myself in Florida, Puerto Rico, and Bonaire. It gets worse when the planning of the dive is left to someone else. Like a DM or Guide.

Unless they actually know you, and know you well, trusting them to plan the dive and keep you safe is crazy. Buddying with a DM or Guide who is also leading a group may be a good way to get someone or yourself hurt or worse.
Even when you pay for a private guide the possibility still exists that something could happen to them. Are you prepared to deal with it.

Cold water divers appear to pay more attention to things like planning and being responsible for themselves. That may be due to the fact that DM's and Guides rarely, if ever, lead dives for them. Once the OW class is over you're pretty much on your own. Unless you get a shop that tries to get you to open your wallet often for more classes.

More and more I am convinced that doing an AOW class should be done AFTER a rescue diver class. Especially if your OW did not contain rescue skills. Deeper dives pose more risk. Risk that is really not often effectively communicated in the OW class. Even in many AOW classes where it's more about getting a taste or tour of deep (ie advanced dives) the risk is really glossed over or in some cases ignored. Once you hear "we do this all the time! You'll be fine." It's time to run like hell away from that operation.

I also don't see a high class operation telling a diver to just stay shallower while the rest of us go 40 ft deeper as being an indication of an operation I would want to dive with. Or let my loved ones use. That kind of lackadaisical attitude would be another huge red flag. They have no idea of your skill level. No idea of your comfort level. That they would even suggest such a thing is unethical and IMO immoral.

 

[TMHeimer]

Jim, While I think my AOW instructor did a good job and I learned a fair bit, it makes sense to do Rescue first--or as you do, have it as part of OW. Heck, you may never even do AOW. You could do 1,000 dives or more with just OW and no clue about exact rescue techniques.

 

[KenGordon]

I have seen this myself in Florida, Puerto Rico, and Bonaire. It gets worse when the planning of the dive is left to someone else. Like a DM or Guide.

Unless they actually know you, and know you well, trusting them to plan the dive and keep you safe is crazy. Buddying with a DM or Guide who is also leading a group may be a good way to get someone or yourself hurt or worse.
Even when you pay for a private guide the possibility still exists that something could happen to them. Are you prepared to deal with it.

Cold water divers appear to pay more attention to things like planning and being responsible for themselves. That may be due to the fact that DM's and Guides rarely, if ever, lead dives for them. Once the OW class is over you're pretty much on your own. Unless you get a shop that tries to get you to open your wallet often for more classes.

More and more I am convinced that doing an AOW class should be done AFTER a rescue diver class. Especially if your OW did not contain rescue skills. Deeper dives pose more risk. Risk that is really not often effectively communicated in the OW class. Even in many AOW classes where it's more about getting a taste or tour of deep (ie advanced dives) the risk is really glossed over or in some cases ignored. Once you hear "we do this all the time! You'll be fine." It's time to run like hell away from that operation.
.

Being realistic, there is an entire industry based on two key elects:

1 - training to be as quick and easy as possible
2 - giving people with minimal training a good time on holiday

That is what holiday/resort diving is about. If follows from that that having proper gas planning and rescue skills is not a requirement. There are agencies which do teach those skills to second level divers, but you will not find many people doing those courses in the warm water resorts.

 

[NAM001]

Really too much talk about cesa being good or bad. On one hand it is bad because of the situation that got you there...Its the last resort!!!!! When you have nothing left to cling to ,,,, then there is nothing bad about having access to a last resort method. The problem is that so many new divers look at a cesa as taught at <30 ft is a viable backup for an deep ooa. ITS NOT A BACK UP, Its the last resort for when your air failed and your buddy (the backup) failed. OW's rely on cesa to get them out of trouble when they should be looking to their buddy. It is ok at 30-60 ft. at 100 plus it is a different thing when you mix in all the emotions and panic associated with an ooa at 100. It is something that you have to be proficient at for it to be a VIABLE backup. That proficiency is not a product of OW training or AOW training. CESA is something that should be abandoned due to replacement by a good buddy. Kinds like a road map is abandoned for a gps. Most people cant operate a map. If I said stop breathing and tell me how far to the next turn you could do it with the gps. Cant do that with a map cause you have to find the map first then deal with all the other map related issues. at best you could say its 3 fingers to the next turn. I look at CESA as blow and go and hope for the best. Best is not a very high standard considering everything else that had to go wrong already.

 

[CuzzA]

@Curt Bowen started a thread in Underwater Video, but I think it's worth sharing here. Mind you these tests were done with full tanks.

Life Ending Seconds

 

[Neilwood]

@CuzzA - interesting video.

I would agree with those people who agree that CESA must be taught as, as an absolute last resort where no alternative exists, it is your only hope for survival and divers in that situation will try to swim up anyway so should be taught how to do that in the safest way possible.

What I think is worth bearing in mind is that you could actually breathe off the leaking hose/reg for a while during which time you are starting your ascent.

Doing very rough calculations based on the table in the video and basing it on 500psi of gas remaining (normal minimum allowance for return to surface), I get the following @5ata:
A (freeflow)=24 secs
B (LP hose)=21 secs
C (HP hose)=233 secs

Assuming the diver notices the failure before going OOG (and they should if paying any sort of attention to their diving), they do have some mitigation/ assistance in getting to the surface alive.

 

[CuzzA]

Also, assuming the leak started toward the end of the hose where you can reach it, you can simply bend the hose shut like you would a garden hose. At least you can with rubber hoses. Not sure about braided hoses as I don't own any and therefore have never tested it.