Why not Fundies?

[TxHockeyGuy]

I have read through most of the posts and I would love to take a DIR-F type class. There are a few reasons why I probably won't be doing so for a while.

1. I just plain need to do a little more diving first as I have very few dives.
2. I really don't have the money to invest in any additional equipment at this time.

Number 2 is really the show stopper here. I don't have a lot of money right now and I honestly can't believe that by ditching my Brigade and going to a BP/W that I will significantly improve either safety or my diving ability, they aren't that dissimilar. As for the long hose I see some advantages here but at least according to the training I've received you are supposed to be holding onto each others BC during an OOA. I suppose this may be due to the fact that students are not typically using long hoses, maybe someone from the DIR crowd can answer that for me. I am not opposed to using a longer hose but I would like to hear why it is better. I do now however realize why my Air2 isn't as good as a standard octo thanks to my AOW instructor and I do plan on rectifying that mistake, funds permitting.

Now the reasons I do want to take DIR-F are simply to become a better diver. Right now I know my buoyancy needs significant improvement, I know I'm using my hands too much, and I know my trim isn't right. Interestingly enough I can do a backwards kick although I'm sure it isn't probably right or pretty, but hey I've only got 18 dives so I'm pretty happy that I can go backwards at all.

What I want to do is take classes that will make me a better diver, DIR-F is such a class. I just wish there were additional classes out there to help aid new divers such as myself. Something similar to the following.

OW - Teaches you not to kill yourelf, which is all it does today
OW+ - Teach you how to actually dive, get the basics down
AOW - If people would take OW+ they might actually get something from this class
Advanced Buoyancy and Skills - AKA DIR-F Light
DIR-F or something similar, wouldn't neccessarily have to be DIR

I know right now there are classes out there like peak performance buoyancy which are supposed to address at least the buoyancy aspect. If it was anything like what I took it will be a joke and be of little value. I realize most people probably wouldn't take these additional courses but personally I wish they were offered.

 

[Adobo]

For those of you who would consider taking Fundies

Why not? We've had a couple of classes here in Seattle not fill, and it puzzles me. It's SUCH a good class, and I keep reading of people who are unhappy they can't get access to such a class. And here we are in the Puget Sound region, loaded with divers, and spots are going empty.

Do you not have the equipment? Is it too expensive? Are you too far from anywhere where the class is held? Is it the reputation for difficulty that's stopping you?

No need to hear from those who wouldn't take the class if their life depended on it, now . . .

I've considered taking fundies but at this point, I'm not sure what I need it for. It seems I would only really need it if I was to pursue GUE tech or cave. That route is prohibitively expensive.

As far as getting advanced diver training, we are pretty lucky in Northern California. There is a local outfit here that provides outstanding tech/overhead training. They also provide the only real "advanced" recreational diving training that I know about. (No offense intended for you folks who have your underwater butt scratching specialty cards.)

Oh, and the best part, these guys offer whatever equipment is needed for rentals when teaching classes. In other words, when they teach their DIR workshop, they rent out full DIR kits including paddle fins. So the only real cost issue is the cost of the rental.

 

[theskull]

I have read through most of the posts and I would love to take a DIR-F type class. There are a few reasons why I probably won't be doing so for a while.

1. I just plain need to do a little more diving first as I have very few dives.
2. I really don't have the money to invest in any additional equipment at this time.

Number 2 is really the show stopper here. I don't have a lot of money right now and I honestly can't believe that by ditching my Brigade and going to a BP/W that I will significantly improve either safety or my diving ability, they aren't that dissimilar. As for the long hose I see some advantages here but at least according to the training I've received you are supposed to be holding onto each others BC during an OOA. I suppose this may be due to the fact that students are not typically using long hoses, maybe someone from the DIR crowd can answer that for me. I am not opposed to using a longer hose but I would like to hear why it is better. I do now however realize why my Air2 isn't as good as a standard octo thanks to my AOW instructor and I do plan on rectifying that mistake, funds permitting.

Now the reasons I do want to take DIR-F are simply to become a better diver. Right now I know my buoyancy needs significant improvement, I know I'm using my hands too much, and I know my trim isn't right. Interestingly enough I can do a backwards kick although I'm sure it isn't probably right or pretty, but hey I've only got 18 dives so I'm pretty happy that I can go backwards at all.

What I want to do is take classes that will make me a better diver, DIR-F is such a class. I just wish there were additional classes out there to help aid new divers such as myself. Something similar to the following.

OW - Teaches you not to kill yourelf, which is all it does today
OW+ - Teach you how to actually dive, get the basics down
AOW - If people would take OW+ they might actually get something from this class
Advanced Buoyancy and Skills - AKA DIR-F Light
DIR-F or something similar, wouldn't neccessarily have to be DIR

I know right now there are classes out there like peak performance buoyancy which are supposed to address at least the buoyancy aspect. If it was anything like what I took it will be a joke and be of little value. I realize most people probably wouldn't take these additional courses but personally I wish they were offered.

Good news for you. Exactly what you want is readily available. It doesn't have to be a "class", and it doesn't have to have a hefty fee. All you have to do is frequent a local dive site, be working on your skills (buoyancy control is king, and practice is much more valuable than any kind of instruction for this), and introduce yourself to the best divers you run into on site and ask them to dive with you and provide some critique and pointers. All the really good divers I know would be thrilled to dive with someone who shows sincere interest in being better skilled, and will converse for hours on various dive-related topics between dives. And for sure, observe the way they dive, the way they prepare, and the way they plan, and ask questions about anything you're not sure of. Some will have a bad attitude when approached, but these are very rarely the ones you want to learn from anyway.

Have fun, my man. Enjoy your diving while you're polishing those skills.

theskull

 

[Halthron]

To answer the specific question, the reason it took me so long to take the class was due to the inefficient scheduling. It's a truism that most small business people tend to be inefficient when it comes to the support functions of their business and that's doubly so here in the 3rd world. It wasn't until one of my coworkers decided he wanted to take the class that we could steer the instructor in a set of dates that was more favorable. My coworker then bailed out but the class was able to run with three students.

 

[TSandM]

As for the long hose I see some advantages here but at least according to the training I've received you are supposed to be holding onto each others BC during an OOA.

There is nothing about using the long hose that PRECLUDES holding onto the other diver. It gives you options. In the DIR world, an OOA would be either an equipment malfunction or a temporary glitch in a procedure. The practiced divers would remain calm and simply share air as necessary. No need to hang onto one another -- you're horizontal, you aren't panicked, you simply need to facilitate an exit or the solution to the problem that led to the air share. If a long hose diver ends up helping someone they've simply encountered, they can do the airshare just as the other agencies teach it if they need to. You just have more options.

Air sharing is actually one of the places where the holistic nature of the system is so clear . . . You begin with good skills. You get good equipment and maintain it properly. You do all the appropriate checks before you get in the water. You have a dive plan and a gas plan, and it's agreed upon by all teammates before the dive begins. You know your gas consumption, and you monitor the dive and your gas as necessary. You will only end up OOA if something has gone very wrong -- but if it does, you have practiced team skills, communication and air sharing until it is second nature, and you are as well prepared for that eventuality as you can possibly be. It's all part of the whole -- you take one piece, the air share protocol, out of the whole picture, and you can pick it to pieces. But when it falls into place in the puzzle, the whole picture is much easier to see.

I've considered taking fundies but at this point, I'm not sure what I need it for. It seems I would only really need it if I was to pursue GUE tech or cave.

You only NEED Fundies to go on to further training with GUE. But I can tell you that reaching the level of skill that Fundies teaches you improves the enjoyment of every dive. Most of my dives are less than 70 feet deep, and focused on enjoying the marine life of Puget Sound. My ability to enjoy those dives has been multiplied manyfold by my improved skills, my increased confidence, and the strong partnership I have with my companions underwater.

 

[lamont]

I have read through most of the posts and I would love to take a DIR-F type class. There are a few reasons why I probably won't be doing so for a while.

1. I just plain need to do a little more diving first as I have very few dives.
2. I really don't have the money to invest in any additional equipment at this time.

Number 2 is really the show stopper here. I don't have a lot of money right now and I honestly can't believe that by ditching my Brigade and going to a BP/W that I will significantly improve either safety or my diving ability, they aren't that dissimilar.

i think you would probably find that most DIR instructors would tend to agree.

really, the only absolute gear requirement in just showing up to take a DIR class is the long hose config. provided you have two standard regs its just the cost of the hoses to get yourself in a good enough condition. the rest of the class is just buoyancy control, trim, anti-silt kicks and OOAs with bag shooting and ascent drills if you get there. you can do most of that reasonably well with a recreational gear config, with the exception that GUE only teaches the long hose for OOAs. just make sure that the instructor knows what gear config you'll be taking the class in, what your expectations are and ideally take a buddy along with the same gear and expectations.

As for the long hose I see some advantages here but at least according to the training I've received you are supposed to be holding onto each others BC during an OOA. I suppose this may be due to the fact that students are not typically using long hoses, maybe someone from the DIR crowd can answer that for me. I am not opposed to using a longer hose but I would like to hear why it is better.

in a long hose config:

- you always know where your regs are (an octo can come free of its holder)
- you will always know if one of your regs is significantly free flowing
- reg recovery with a long hose is trivial since you just shove your backup in your mouth
- you can reliably deliver a regulator, properly positioned for breathing to the donatee without causing a free flow as instantaneously as is humanly possible.
- break-aways and quick releases always break away when you don't want them to, and don't break away when you really want them to. your mouth, however, is the ultimate break away -- you will never fail to release the regulator, and if the regulator comes out of its quick-release (your mouth) you will immediately know and fix it.
- the long hose config optimizes for the case where someone rips the reg out of your mouth.
- the long hose gives you the freedom to get a little distance between you and the victim. this can be very useful if you decide to swim upshore (the victim may not be your buddy and you may have plenty of gas, it may be much safer to swim to the upline or swim upslope to avoid boat traffic, for example). also OW divers aren't generally good enough to do a free ascent so swimming upslope may be considerably safer, just to give the victim something to hang onto, particularly if one or both of you has wound up with a deco obligation.
- similarly it gives you some freedom on ascent so that you don't start dragging each other up catastrophically. generally i don't want someone in an OOA dragging me up, i want control over my buoyancy and if they start to runaway i want to swim up after them while dumping, grab them and pull them down.

and those are just the reasons why the long hose has advantages in a recreational setting...

 

[creamofwheat]

Oh, I am definitely interested in taking a DIR-F class, not necessarily to become totally DIR, but just for the skills it teaches you, and besides, I adore good challenges and I have heard it is, indeed, a very challenging course.

What's stopping me? Well, I just got back from holiday and I currently have ziltch in my bank account, so money is obviously an issue. Secondly, there are no DIR-F instructors in my area to my knowledge. Taking this class would require me to come down and visit TSandM for a few days, book the time off of work, have more money so I can afford to go away to take the class. So basically, time and money are restricting me. (Isn't that the case with most things. I hate not having money).

 

[grazie42]

I was almost signed up for a class at the end of this month, just 2,5hrs drive away (kinda like I know a guy who knows a guy who...)

Why I didn´t sign up:
-The cost of the course is half the cost of a cave class I´m taking in october.
Without knowing "anything" about DIR or Cave (though I have taken cavern), if nothing else the caveclass will give me access (assuming I pass)...

It´s also half the cost of the technical wreck class/trimix classes that I´ve already taken or 75% of the cost for DM.

All this is without accounting for the 1,5 days off from work, lodging and other expenses (I already have the gear)...

Will I take dir-f at some point? At this point it´s a maybe...I will definitely do cave first, after that it´s a toss-up between DM & dir-f and to be honest I´m not convinced that I´ll choose dir-f because once again the other course gives me more options...

 

[Azza]

My wife said I am not allowed to spend anymore money on diving...tank fills and petrol for the boat excluded.

 

[shark.byte.usa]

I'd very much like to take it someday but for many of the reasons already mentioned [$, time, lack of local instruction, gear] I will not for awhile. I'm also a smoker, from what I understand I'd have to remedy that before signing up too. I'll be moving to a BP/W this year and will probably rig the long hose configuration at the same time. I see definite advantages to the long hose and have always thought it was a great idea/config.

Garrett