Why not Fundies?

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I'm a very new diver and would love to take DIR-F, in fact, I've even applied for a local course. I don't expect even a provisional pass, just a learning experience. That being said, I might still bail. I'll never pass the timed swim, and will probably get really stressed trying to. I don't know anyone else who will be diving DIR, and expect to catch some flak about it from some people who I am beginning to dive with. And I'm not sure that I'll be able to keep up and not disrupt my team. Equipment is a non-issue. I started with a Hog/DIR rig and other than some trivial things, don't expect to make any changes.
 
rongoodman:
I'm a very new diver and would love to take DIR-F, in fact, I've even applied for a local course. I don't expect even a provisional pass, just a learning experience. That being said, I might still bail. I'll never pass the timed swim, and will probably get really stressed trying to. I don't know anyone else who will be diving DIR, and expect to catch some flak about it from some people who I am beginning to dive with. And I'm not sure that I'll be able to keep up and not disrupt my team. Equipment is a non-issue. I started with a Hog/DIR rig and other than some trivial things, don't expect to make any changes.

I had the exact same challenges as you. Not the best swimmer in the world, so I didn't do the swim. I had hurt my ankle so didn't even try. There is one DIR diver in my town, and he's a cave diver. Met him last year, we still haven't been in the water together. You think YOU will catch flak? Try being DIR here in cave country. Your "team" will have the same problems as you. I took the class with 20 dives, no real buoyancy control, and though my trim was decent, since I had poor buoyancy, I barely got to display it.

I took the course anyway, and learned a TON. And had a good time. I advise you do the same. Also, as you start to demonstrate good skill in the water, your current buddies may start thinking that class wasn't such a bad idea.
 
TSandM:
For those of you who would consider taking Fundies

Why not?
Unless one intends to "marry" GUE and DIR it is overpriced and unnecessary. Take Advanced Nitrox instead.
Rick
 
I think one thing that puts people off from the entire DIR concept is that some of its practitioners come off as zealots. If you don't know what I am talking about, watch any of the DIR videos with George Irvine. He essentially tells you that if you are not diving DIR that you are a "stroke" and a diving accident waiting to happen.

The entire concept of "Doing it Right" argues that there is one best way to dive and that if you are not following the principles of DIR, then you quite simply are diving wrong. Of course, you can dive with a non-DIR rig, have a great time and be a completely safe and competent diver. But, to a DIR diver, you are still doing it incorrectly.

Please realize that I am not being critical of the DIR philosophy, but merely pointing out some of the criticisms I have heard from other divers.
 
Rick Murchison:
Unless one intends to "marry" GUE and DIR it is overpriced and unnecessary. Take Advanced Nitrox instead.
Rick
Why would someone take Advanced Nitrox (a class with other classes as prerequisites) to learn the fundamental, basic skills of buoyancy control, finning, ascending, gas planning, and air sharing?

It might be nice that you get some training in those fundamental skills when learning about diving and obtaining up to 100% O2 (to depths of 130'), but.... why should you have to go through Nitrox course and then Advanced Nitrox course before you're allowed to learn the stuff you should have learned in OW but didn't?
 
rongoodman:
I'm a very new diver and would love to take DIR-F, in fact, I've even applied for a local course. I don't expect even a provisional pass, just a learning experience. That being said, I might still bail. I'll never pass the timed swim, and will probably get really stressed trying to. I don't know anyone else who will be diving DIR, and expect to catch some flak about it from some people who I am beginning to dive with. And I'm not sure that I'll be able to keep up and not disrupt my team. Equipment is a non-issue. I started with a Hog/DIR rig and other than some trivial things, don't expect to make any changes.
I'm in Troy and I dive DIR.

Send me a PM, we'll dive anytime.
 
TSandM:
For those of you who would consider taking Fundies

Why not? We've had a couple of classes here in Seattle not fill, and it puzzles me. It's SUCH a good class, and I keep reading of people who are unhappy they can't get access to such a class. And here we are in the Puget Sound region, loaded with divers, and spots are going empty.

Do you not have the equipment? Is it too expensive? Are you too far from anywhere where the class is held? Is it the reputation for difficulty that's stopping you?

No need to hear from those who wouldn't take the class if their life depended on it, now . . . :)

Interesting question.

I think the answer lies in:

What are the perceived benefits?

What is the true cost? (If someone has to buy equipment, the cost goes up rapidly)

Are the benefits worth the cost?

One issue I see is the objectives of the course are never spelled out. What does one learn in the class? Some people think it's about brainwashing and drinking Kool-Aid. Dispel the myth. When you are listing a class, list the course objectives. That's much more important than the name, yet the name is all anyone ever sees.

Another issue is requiring a change in equipment prior to taking the class. If a BP/wing is perceived as better, teach that in the class. Teaching only folks who already dive a BP/wing will reduce your market.

I think $300 is inexpensive for a good class that will teach me things I want to learn, but unless the course objectives are spelled out, how would I know it covers things I want to know. World class instructors are great to have, but if they are teaching things that I don't need or want, I'm not going to take the class. Another point is what makes them "world class?" Achievements in diving are fine, but unless they are combined with the ability to teach, and teach well, we're talking about world class divers, not world class instructors. It may be that all the GUE instructors are world class, why is the failure rate high? Are they not teaching the material well? Is the course too short for the amount of material? There's a problem somewhere.
 
The goals of the course and the specific topics covered, as well as the skills you should be able to perform to pass the course, are quite clearly spelled out on the GUE website (here).

The two GUE instructors with whom I have had the good fortune to work are two of the three best scuba instructors I've seen. And I think every single report of a GUE class I've read has praised the instructor. It's my suspicion that the instructor training that GUE does really works on teaching skills -- either that, or they're just succeeding in recruiting people with exceptional teaching talent to begin with.

Why is the failure rate high? Because the standards are high, and because most of us come into the class so far from meeting them that there is little hope that we can be brought up to standards in three days. This, I think, is the reason for the provisional pass. The class introduces you to the skills and ideas, but you have to go off on your own and work to truly MASTER them. You don't pass until you meet the standard, period. Personally, I LIKE that, even though it took me every bit of the six allowed months (plus a fudge factor) to reach standards. But when I passed the checkout dive, I knew I had accomplished something.

As far as Fundies vs. full cave, remember that Fundies is FUNDAMENTALS. A full cave diver should have skills and understanding far beyond Fundies. But I read all the time about people taking cavern (look at creamofwheat's recent report, for example) and they spend a good part of their time on buoyancy, trim, and propulsion techniques. If you've been through Fundies, you already HAVE that, and the class can focus on the cave-specific material instead.

I do think it must be very hard to decide you LIKE what DIR teaches, and go home to an area where you have nobody like you with whom to work. (I feel for dherbman.) But you still won't have lost anything by learning the academic material or the skills. And who knows -- you can be an ambassador and lead by example!
 
Walter:
why is the failure rate high? Are they not teaching the material well? Is the course too short for the amount of material? There's a problem somewhere.
The material is well taught and the is adequate time to cover the material i.e. the academic stuff. The problem for most people is the in water skill set based on the academic stuff. The performance standards are high and the instructors don't back down from those standards. It takes many folks more time to actaully master the in water skills than is available in one weekend. Just like it does for regular OW diving.
 
I find value in most of the skills being taught in the class. I work on many of those skills when we go out diving and we are always conciously working to be better divers. The skills mastery for the fundamentals class should not be exclusive to one group of divers.

By enforcing a specific gear type in a class based on "fundamentals" you create that division. And while the class is a good price, the equipment requirements are not. That few hundred for the plate, few hundred for the wing, new fins, new hoses, second reg, etc is a huge financial commitment for people and defines exactly who is going to fork up for a "fundamentals" class.

Most people who cough up that much for diving is not the majority of the demographic, just look around. People don't want to spend 400 on a BC that appears to have been actually constructed, and you are asking them to buy a slab of metal some webbing from Ace Hardware and a fabric balloon that costs more? Yes that seems like a harsh description, but look at it from their side. That's what it looks like to the uninitiated so what's the value to them? Does it necessarily make them a better diver when they go once a year to the reefs and dork around looking at fish? No. So what's the value proposition you present? Why not let them take the class and if the skills are too hard with their gear they will either adapt and overcome or you can offer to loan them a DIR rig and have them try it. What a great way to get people excited about BP/W setups!

It is not impossible to have excellent skills and wear a BC. So why can't someone show people how to have excellent skills in one? They can, but a majority of divers just don't care that much about honing their skills to the level of Fundamentals. I'd sign up tomorrow for Fundamentals if we were allowed a few concessions in regards to our gear.

Sure healthy weight and non-smokers are good things towards a healthy lifestyle but telling someone that they can't participate because they are fat is going to cut down your demographic of interested people even more, take out the unpopular smoker crowd and it cuts into the demographic further.

By making the requirements (gear and physique) stringent you limit the demographic. That's one reason more people don't participate.
 

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