Why not BP/W for Beginner?

[SPKelpDiver]

My first and only BC was a Zeagle Ranger and I think it is a more effective system for what I am doing than a BP/Wing, although I have never used one. Every good dive site around here requires a pretty hefty hike down a cliff face to access the site (Southern California, Palos Verdes). The Zeagle feels very similar to a BP/W from what I here, and the extra padding makes for a very comfortable hike with all your gear on. I am not sure if a BP/W would offer you the same level of comfort and support, please feel free to correct me if I am wrong though.
I was trained up in a jacket, and when I asked people around the dive shop what the learning curve would be on a Back-Inflate, I got answers like "you'll need at least 10 dives to get it down". Which is bull****, I dialed it in on the first dive. Just like the face forward at the surface is a myth too, just don't over-inflate as many have said around here.

 

[Greendiver]

Thanks for all of the input!

 

[Ben_ca]

I really like this diagram... it illustrates the progression your LDS wants you to take...

Just replace regs with BC's ... and even if you dont' do Tech it'll still be worth it for the resale value (look at Ebay prices for used Halcyon BP&W's)

if nothing else please read Bitz Scuba Diving Equipment Guide - Equipment Introduction

 

[Lucy's Diver]

Look, for the majority of warm water recreational divers the jacket is fine. I never saw any bouyancy issues due to an inability to inflate or vent a jacket BC, I have seen several with a BP/W. Certainly operator error in each case, but these errors (incuding poor wing choice leading to an air taco) would have been impossible to make in a jacket. The answer to this problem may well be "be a better diver" but many people just won't.

I dive a dive rite trans pac in warm water and a BP/W with either double steel 120s or a STA for singles in cold (drysuit or 7mm farmer john). The BP/W is a heavy unit to transport (both my old jacket BC and my trans pac are much lighter). That is kind of the point - the BP/W is negative weight which is distributed better than lead, so you need less lead (or none). On the other hand, its weight you bring on the plane. The lead you leave behind.

To me for warm water AL80 diving its a wash. If you are weighted properly you'll be carrying so little air it doesn't really matter. Once you add heavy tanks (steel) or any significant gear (ponies, can lights) the jacket is just horrible. On the other hand, some dive boats that swap your tanks for you won't get it right with the trans pac or BP/W (never had one put the tank where I want it, but that's an advantage - you can trim out better with tank placement, and the mates don't like the dual band, my gear has been called "user unfriendly"). Also, I do miss my jacket when I have a long surface wait for a pick up like after a drift dive. A near empty AL80 is not sufficiently negative to help you float face up (steel 120s, a little more so). With my old jacket BC I could inflate it and totally relax chest and face up and wait.

 

[Silverback784]

Thank Goodness my instructor lent me his Dive Rite Wing. I have tried the jacket style and there is no way I use one. An associate of my instructor has had her for over 10yrs and will not depart from it. Oh BTW the wing I now own is the one I di my check out in. I will keep it for sure.

 

[mrlipis]

It's inconceivable to me that someone would inflate a jacket style BC enough to feel a constriction while diving; that's ALOT of air

That's my point, and we are talking about beginners here. If you over inflate a jacket you can feel it squeeze where as a wing you don't feel anything. IMO the number one challenge to a beginner is learning how much air is needed to establish neutral buoyancy. I'm not even saying, one can't learn on a wing. The question was, what's the difference in the two. I was simply pointing the difference out.

Bruce

 

[ONESPEED]

I have several friends who started w/ A BP/W and not only had no problems with them, they love them. I have even more friends replacing their jacket style BC's w/ BP/W's because they have seen the light.

Buy good gear the first time and save the expense of purchasing two BC's.

 

[ONESPEED]

I have never, ever had issues "remaining upright" in a backplate/wing setup at the surface. In fact, no one I've ever been diving with using a backplate/wing has ever had issues with it. It's just a ridiculous rumor.

Absolutely, 100% correct. If anything, I can lay back in mine and relax like I'm in a recliner while on the surface. I'm on my third BP/W setup and none have floated me face forward.

 

[UnderSeaBumbleBee]

When I was a noob--well I have been certified a couple of years, but still consider myself a noob. I learned in a jacket and did my first 50 or so dives in a rental jacket. Then I purchased a Golem Gear 35# wing with stainless steel back plate. It was the single best purchase I have made in my short diving career. I am a Golem gal, but I don't think you could go wrong with most any brand of back plate and wing.

Go for it!

. . . and if you need help setting it up and getting it tweaked, just post and ask for help. The kind folks here will help you too just like they helped me.

 

[Geoff_H]

That's my point, and we are talking about beginners here. If you over inflate a jacket you can feel it squeeze where as a wing you don't feel anything. IMO the number one challenge to a beginner is learning how much air is needed to establish neutral buoyancy.

Position in the water column is the only way to judge how much air you need to establish neutral bouyancy. If you inflate a jacket BCD so much it constricts you then you're either grossly overweighed or shortly about to become a Polaris missile.

Either scenario is not good, I think it is a fallacy to suggest the constriction feedback from a jacket BCD is at all useful in helping beginner divers achieve neutral bouyancy.