Why isn't the Freedom Plate DIR compliant?

[Akimbo]

Eric: From a marketing standpoint, you need a Web site. Lots of images and, as you can see, testimonials are easy to come by. Let your happy customers do the selling but we need a little help!

 

[buddhasummer]

Good question, I don't know.
Probably because DIR is the one who brought the BP/W into mainstream use so therefore if they like it then it would somehow validate what I'm doing.
But you're right, why should I bother?
I should be happy with those that are GUE trained that are intrigued by the plate and maybe even use one.
I know there are a few out there.

Aim for the target and quit getting sidetracked.

Thank you for your post.

I think that is without a doubt the best way forward for both your mind and wallet.

 

[ams511]

Eric: I agree that targeting divers who are contemplating switching to, or at least learning about, doubles may not be your best opportunity. Without a big investment in tooling to reduce your unit cost, advertising to get the word out, and a broad product line I fear that selling through dive shops is going to be very difficult. Fortunately this is the age of the Internet.

I am also skeptical dropping lots of money on tooling makes sense since the product is not easily protected. There is way too much “prior art” for a meaningful patent IMHO. The biggest problem I see is that large manufacturers will take notice of the market you have worked years to develop and simply copy your hard work.

It may be to your advantage to remain a small niche selling a fine hand-crafted product, incrementally reducing your costs along the way. You are well on your way to making the Freedom Plate an object of desire in addition to a great product to dive.

Eric,

IMHO, this is the most important post in this thread. Akimbo brings up some good points without the French lesson.

If you want to be an dive industry entrepreneur, then you need to know business in general, the dive business, your customers, and your product. You seem to know general business and your product but I am unsure about how much you know about the dive industry and your customers. My recommendation would be to talk to as many people as possible about your venture. A good place to start would be to talk to Bob from Force Fins. He has many years experience and sells a product that does not compete with yours. Perhaps Dan could make the introduction.

To build on what Akimbo said. You need to think about your customer, when does s/he purchase gear? I would assume most do so shortly after starting diving and that means marketing through dive shops (and knowing their margin) and advertising in magazines and maybe social media. Others will purchase when they become committed to diving (and more experienced) and realize that jacket BCs are not the best. These are the people you can get through online and social media advertising. The newer divers may want to purchase a complete package while the more experienced divers maybe more comfortable just purchasing a plate.

Also as Akimbo pointed out, how difficult would it be to copy your plate or produce something similar? The big guys have connections in the far east which you don't have. They could easily order 1,000 or so from a vendor and get a good price. While you may not want to stay small you do want to stay under the radar.

---------- Post added October 29th, 2013 at 07:25 PM ----------

Eric: From a marketing standpoint, you need a Web site. Lots of images and, as you can see, testimonials are easy to come by. Let your happy customers do the selling but we need a little help!

He also needs to start a separate company and get legal advice about the liability issues. Selling plates on Scubaboard personally is risky if some bonehead gets hurt and decides to sue. See if you can dig up the old posts about Abyss Scuba and how they were bankrupted by a lawsuit they won.

 

[Peter_C]

I should be happy with those that are GUE trained that are intrigued by the plate and maybe even use one.
I know there are a few out there.

I took Fundies in doubles going for a Tech Pass, so I used my aluminum Dive Rite plate and double HP100's. For single tank diving I insist on a stainless plate, so I have a second plate, which is actually my first plate purchase, my Freedom Plate. I even bought a stainless Halcyon plate thinking I would dive argon while single tank diving. Never did, and don't deco dive with an HP130, unlike Claudette, so I sold my H plate. My Freedom Plate is far superior comfort wise to the Dive Right Plate (Used to own a stainless Dive Rite plate too) and the Halcyon plate for single tank diving.

As to set up, I put my can light, backup lights, knife, reel (If I am carrying one), pressure gauge, and scooter clipped off to the same place. Other than the comfort and tanks on my back the setup is the exact same between my plates. I can switch between singles and doubles by changing my BP/W's and tanks. Same regs and all other gear, as I have H valves on my HP130's.

When it comes to single tank diving in the tropics my gear remains mostly the same, yet I can not imagine using a Dive Rite nor a Halycon plate because they just aren't as comfortable as my Freedom Plate, especially with a thin wetsuit, or against bare skin.

Although I don't really care what anyone from GUE thinks of my gear, I do follow the standards of my excellent training from GUE.

My carry on backpack just wouldn't be as cool with a plain old boring plate, matched to the old skool purple. (Yes those chest d-rings were approved in my Fundies class)

Do you have to drive a Toyota to be DIR? Maybe a black Toyota should be the required dive vehicle? Or not...

 

[JamesK]

I took Fundies in doubles going for a Tech Pass, so I used my aluminum Dive Rite plate and double HP100's. For single tank diving I insist on a stainless plate, so I have a second plate, which is actually my first plate purchase, my Freedom Plate. I even bought a stainless Halcyon plate thinking I would dive argon while single tank diving. Never did, and don't deco dive with an HP130, unlike Claudette, so I sold my H plate. My Freedom Plate is far superior comfort wise to the Dive Right Plate (Used to own a stainless Dive Rite plate too) and the Halcyon plate for single tank diving.

As to set up, I put my can light, backup lights, knife, reel (If I am carrying one), pressure gauge, and scooter clipped off to the same place. Other than the comfort and tanks on my back the setup is the exact same between my plates. I can switch between singles and doubles by changing my BP/W's and tanks. Same regs and all other gear, as I have H valves on my HP130's.

When it comes to single tank diving in the tropics my gear remains mostly the same, yet I can not imagine using a Dive Rite nor a Halycon plate because they just aren't as comfortable as my Freedom Plate, especially with a thin wetsuit, or against bare skin.

Although I don't really care what anyone from GUE thinks of my gear, I do follow the standards of my excellent training from GUE.

My carry on backpack just wouldn't be as cool with a plain old boring plate, matched to the old skool purple. (Yes those chest d-rings were approved in my Fundies class)

Do you have to drive a Toyota to be DIR? Maybe a black Toyota should be the required dive vehicle? Or not...

View attachment 169978

I have a Toyota, so I am good. LoL

I like your backpack setup! Very slick! I am actually making something like this out of an old assault pack to carry my singles gear.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

 

[Subcooled]

[No. I really did not read all the 8 pages...]

DIR compliant? Who cares?

DIR (the old fashioned term) actually means: Unified Team. Everyone needs to be white straight male. If you are different, you won't be accepted. That plate looks different. Sorry, dude.

---------- Post added November 1st, 2013 at 12:38 PM ----------

I was told that by a GUE student

There is a slight difference between an instructor and a student, and their understanding.

GUE, with its (sometimes usefull) unified team, seems to attract all sorts of nerds. And I would not take any statement (of the True Believers) without a grain of salt. They have a few really good ideas though.

---------- Post added November 1st, 2013 at 12:55 PM ----------

Your plates are gorgeous, Eric!

I passed Fundies and Recreational Tri-ox in 2006, and those were my last GUE courses. Training did include using a 6cuft argon bottle for drysuit inflation. How would I attach an argon bottle to the Freedom plate?

That's the only thing that occurred to me after looking long and hard at your beautiful design.

~~~~~
Claudette

Darling, I dive 70 minute dives in +4 degrees Celsius and I need no argon. I've done some 45 min dives in water around the freezing point (+-1) and without argon. There are very few people that actually need argon, and most of those will have electrically heated vests anyway. I do not see a point in requiring an argon bottle. It is a very very specialist tool. If your deco is long, then you will need it. Most don't.

 

[JamesK]

[No. I really did not read all the 8 pages...]

DIR compliant? Who cares?

DIR (the old fashioned term) actually means: Unified Team. Everyone needs to be white straight male. If you are different, you won't be accepted. That plate looks different. Sorry, dude.

---------- Post added November 1st, 2013 at 12:38 PM ----------



There is a slight difference between an instructor and a student, and their understanding.

GUE, with its (sometimes usefull) unified team, seems to attract all sorts of nerds. And I would not take any statement (of the True Believers) without a grain of salt. They have a few really good ideas though.

---------- Post added November 1st, 2013 at 12:55 PM ----------




Darling, I dive 70 minute dives in +4 degrees Celsius and I need no argon. I've done some 45 min dives in water around the freezing point (+-1) and without argon. There are very few people that actually need argon, and most of those will have electrically heated vests anyway. I do not see a point in requiring an argon bottle. It is a very very specialist tool. If your deco is long, then you will need it. Most don't.

Well aren't you just a bowlful of sunbeams and unicorn smiles.

I know many people that need supplementary suit inflation. Ever use trimix? You do not want to be stuck on a deco stop for an hour using helium to keep you warm.

Also where do you get this craptastic sputum about white males only?

Any, and by any I mean very little, but of credibility you might have had with your post was washed down the drain with your "white male", "nerd", and "darling" comments. Talk about a condescending post.

 

[danvolker]

I guess some people can't let go of the ancient past.....Some Southerners still have hatred for Northerners because of their mis-deeds during the Civil War.... My guess is that this poster's hatred for DIR people is about as current and relevant

 

[JamesK]

I guess some people can't let go of the ancient past.....Some Southerners still have hatred for Northerners because of their mis-deeds during the Civil War.... My guess is that this poster's hatred for DIR people is about as current and relevant

And according to his profile, he has been diving for 3 years. That's the kinder gentler era. LOL.

 

[ams511]

I guess some people can't let go of the ancient past.....Some Southerners still have hatred for Northerners because of their mis-deeds during the Civil War.... My guess is that this poster's hatred for DIR people is about as current and relevant

or maybe he doesn't hate at all. It could be a cultural difference from someone from Finland.

---------- Post added November 1st, 2013 at 01:34 PM ----------

Also where do you get this craptastic sputum about white males only?

Any, and by any I mean very little, but of credibility you might have had with your post was washed down the drain with your "white male", "nerd", and "darling" comments.

He never said "white male", he said "white straight male" you dropped the straight part, TWICE. Does this mean he is correct that DIR/GUE/UTD/ABC/123/etc. is homophobic or is it just you that is the hater?*

*P.S. I don't really think James is a hater but just want to show how easy it can be for a post to be taken out of context.