Why isn't the Freedom Plate DIR compliant?

[ams511]

If we're talking about DIR, we're talking about using the right tool for the job. If you CAN use a 6, I think you probably should. If your profile requires a 14, then use that.

A single tank OW 30/30 dive doesn't really require an al14's worth of inflation gas. So why take it?

Why purchase a second bottle to use with singles if you already have a bottle to use with doubles? Also doesn't DIR also promote diving with a standardized configuration when possible? So why bother with a different attachment method?

 

[TSandM]

I think the bottom line is that the GUE equipment configuration is designed to be flexible, and to allow the diver to move seamlessly from simple single-tank diving to trimix with stages and deco bottles. A plate which is really optimized for simple, single tank diving and does not scale would be viewed as suboptimal. There's nothing unsafe or unusable about the Freedom Plate, but if a GUE instructor were to counsel a student as to what equipment he should buy, this would not be recommended.

 

[JamesK]

I think the bottom line is that the GUE equipment configuration is designed to be flexible, and to allow the diver to move seamlessly from simple single-tank diving to trimix with stages and deco bottles. A plate which is really optimized for simple, single tank diving and does not scale would be viewed as suboptimal. There's nothing unsafe or unusable about the Freedom Plate, but if a GUE instructor were to counsel a student as to what equipment he should buy, this would not be recommended.

I agree. I was actually about to post almost the same thing until I read your response.


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[PfcAJ]

Why purchase a second bottle to use with singles if you already have a bottle to use with doubles? Also doesn't DIR also promote diving with a standardized configuration when possible? So why bother with a different attachment method?

The al14 is just too big to attach to the plate.

I think ink the move is to use a 6 till you need the 14.

 

[elan]

From GUE website:

Standards - Appendix A | Global Underwater Explorers

Eric,
I suggest contacting Jarrod Jablonski directly at GUE if you desire the official answer.

GUE standardized cylinder management does not allow Bracketing of additional cylinders to one's back-gas cylinder(s).

"Where argon bottles are applicable, they should be sized appropriately for the environment; small tanks are placed on the backplate with larger supplies affixed to the diver’s left back gas tank."

I can envision a couple of ways of rigging an alternative drysuit inflation bottle to the Freedom plate using drilled holes and webbing.

A Fundies cert card includes the implied confirmation that the diver's skills, knowledge, and equipment are ready to proceed to Tech1 or Cave1 or other more advanced GUE courses.

Only technical endorsement confirms that the diver is ready to proceed to Tech 1 or Cave 1 class.

For cold water and drysuit diving, an acceptable argon or airgon bottle attachment would be needed.

Why is it so ? Unless you dive helium mixes you do not need an argon bottle for diving cold water. You can feed the dry suit from your left post. One of my Fundies partners was diving exactly that configuration. My wife was also taking fundies in exactly this configuration just recently.

Call Jarrod and find the GUE answer from the source.

~~~~
Claudette

---------- Post added October 27th, 2013 at 05:13 PM ----------

14 is a PITA to carry and dive. Especially on a single tank.

Why purchase a second bottle to use with singles if you already have a bottle to use with doubles? Also doesn't DIR also promote diving with a standardized configuration when possible? So why bother with a different attachment method?

---------- Post added October 27th, 2013 at 05:19 PM ----------

GUE training does not assume one would be proceeding to Tech 3 level. Some people enjoy rec single tank level and would not go further. So if the instructor assumed that the diver would go past Rec pass that could be the reason for it being suboptimal but if the student explicitly say he is going for Rec single tank what is the issue. Sometimes it seems that people try to find reasons where they do not really exist. And how many plates do we get at the end. I have counted at least 4 in my possession. One of which is used exclusively for single tank diving.

I just checked the website and I could not find any reason why the plate would not conform to the requirements.

I think the bottom line is that the GUE equipment configuration is designed to be flexible, and to allow the diver to move seamlessly from simple single-tank diving to trimix with stages and deco bottles. A plate which is really optimized for simple, single tank diving and does not scale would be viewed as suboptimal. There's nothing unsafe or unusable about the Freedom Plate, but if a GUE instructor were to counsel a student as to what equipment he should buy, this would not be recommended.

 

[divad]

It's still a beautiful thing. (the plate)

 

[TSandM]

There is nothing in the standards that says that a plate has to accept an argon bottle, or have a certain number of holes around the edge, or even that it has to have holes or slots to mount doubles. If you are going to parse the standards closely, the Freedom Plate falls within them.

The OP was asking about why an instructor was advising against his plate. The answer is that it does not fulfill the underlying requirement of gear that scales to other levels of diving.
Yes, most of us end up owning multiple plates, and if someone wanted to buy this plate with the clear understanding that it will NOT scale, I don't think anybody would make a big deal out of it. But if Mr. Sedletzky wants GUE to endorse and recommend his plates, they would need to have qualities that they currently don't.

 

[ams511]

The al14 is just too big to attach to the plate.

I think ink the move is to use a 6 till you need the 14.

I agree that the 14 is probably too big to attach to the plate but the H system attaches the 14 to the tank. If a diver was going into trimix and doubles then wouldn't be better to purchase the 14 as it is the most adaptable?

---------- Post added October 27th, 2013 at 11:02 PM ----------

There is nothing in the standards that says that a plate has to accept an argon bottle, or have a certain number of holes around the edge, or even that it has to have holes or slots to mount doubles. If you are going to parse the standards closely, the Freedom Plate falls within them.

From GUE standards page 82

Where argon bottles are applicable, they should be sized appropriately for the environment; small tanks are placed on the backplate with larger supplies affixed to the diver’s left back gas tank.

GUE standards are a bit vague.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

OK, so you can to mount an argon bottle to the side of the left tank if it's a big bottle (14), but a small one (6) must go onto the plate?
That makes absolutely no sense to me.
A small bottle would tuck away between the tank and wing neater that a big bottle.
What's the rule with doubles?
Mounting a 14 on the left side of doubles, that's not an entanglement hazard?
Or is the whole debate about mounting argon even about entanglement hazards or something else?

I really want to make this work. I see the DIR movement really growing and I want to be part of it.
If anybody would be into cutting edge design and ergonomics it should be you guys.
I'll be honest, it would be a great business opportunity for me and a bonus for you. A win win.
I think if you tried the plate for the first time you would really be impressed with how comfortable and stable it is.
I'll get to work.

 

[PfcAJ]

Why would you want an argon bottle on the tank if it COULD go on the plate? That's the logic. Right now we're discussing a piece of equipment that can't do something, when the regular equipment can. Its limiting. I mean, I get it that the freedom plate is real sweet for single tank diving, but we're talking about DIR which is all about scalability. A regular plate is also pretty sweet for single tank diving, and is also sweet for single tank trimix diving, deep diving, cave diving, RB diving, etc. Why would a GUE instructor recommend a student purchase a piece of equipment that's limiting?

The al14 on the doubles is certainly an entanglement hazard. But there's just no other reasonable way to carry enough inflation gas on some dives. So that's where it goes. I don't think anyone is arguing that the al14 on the doubles is great, but there's only so much real-estate on a diver for things to go.