Why is this not the standard?

[MXGratefulDiver]

Do that, or follow the path where most mistakes have already been made by others and prevent making them yourself...

Life is all about choices...

Many choices have nothing to do with mistakes, but are either a matter of preference, environment, or what equipment combinations you're using. Some choices are a trade-off between convenience and simplicity. Some have valid reasons for certain types of diving that are not relevent to other types of diving.

Most choices boil down to trade-offs ... not mistakes ... and it's up to the individual to determine what advantages and drawbacks a given choice offer, and decide which matter and which don't.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[cbrich]

A BP will last a lifetime. A wing can endure years of abuse and is easily replaced. webbing doesn't cost a lot.
I don't see how using BP/Wings will be more expensive than using BCD's over a longer period of time...

I spent more on my first 2 BCD's in the first 7 years of my diving career then on BP/wings in the second 7 years... Sounds like easy math to me....

I went through 3 BCD before I bought my BP/W, velcro loses it's ability to stick, or whatever you call it. Now my SS bp is coming up on 6 years old, bought it new in 2006.

Does anybody know how long a 316SS bp will last. Cacas nailed it on the head, a lifetime. The only items that will need to be replaced are the harness, wing, and cam bands (for the recreational diver). These items are cheap, a hog harness can be made for <$5, wing <$300 (some less than <$200), and cam bands <$20. The webbing for the harness can be bought from a fabric store, and if you have a sewing machine, the cam bands webbing can be replaced. the only thing that will cost any money is the wing. My old wing was 5 years old before I upgraded it, and it had plenty of life in it.

Does anybody have a photo of a worn out wing? How old is it? I am talking about a wing, that has seen it's share of patches sewn in it, etc, etc, etc.

 

[boulderjohn]

I think DevonDiver is close to identifying a major hurdle -the manufacturers. I have heard that to keep certain big name brands in your shop you have to agree to purchase so much a year. If the folks making the tech rigs aren't requiring the same thing then guess what the sales staff is going to be encouraged to sell. It could be a factor.

As someone who has worked with a shop's buyer for 2 shops, I assure you the problem is just the opposite. Almost all tech vendors do require high annual sales, so if you don't think you can meet that high quota, you won't sign a contract, so you won't sell any at all.

I have never met William Hogarth Main but I truly wish that he got one cent each time someone typed "Hog" or "Hogarthian" - it seems only fair.

One person who does not currently dive a strict DIR/Hogarthian setup is Bill Main.

 

[jonnythan]

As someone who has worked with a shop's buyer for 2 shops, I assure you the problem is just the opposite. Almost all tech vendors do require high annual sales, so if you don't think you can meet that high quota, you won't sign a contract, so you won't sell any at all.


One person who does not currently dive a strict DIR/Hogarthian setup is Bill Main.

Yeah? What does he dive?

 

[DevonDiver]

Try lots of stuff and see what works for you.

A clever man learns from his mistakes. A truly wise man learns from the mistakes of others....

You have, at your fingertips, access to 000's of divers who, in turn, have 000's of years diving experience between them. Sure... blow that off and do you own thing from scratch

 

[Them]

Most choices boil down to trade-offs ... not mistakes ... and it's up to the individual to determine what advantages and drawbacks a given choice offer, and decide which matter and which don't.

Thank you for saying that. It is something I have been thinking fairly often, especially when I see opinions written by people like Jarrod Jablonski and similar.

Airplanes follow many different designs. There are fundamental differences in how the controls operate, how the controls affect changes, procedures needed to safely operate them, conditions under which they can be safely operated, et cetera. These differences exist for reasons. They are not arbitrary, they are not the results of errors or misunderstandings, they are not unsafe. Claiming you have a single "best" airplane will not make anyone feel inferior and resist you because they think you are casting aspersions on their varied planes. It will cause them to laugh at you for not understanding that the mission, not theory, dictates ideal form. Change the mission, change the form. Those changes in form are necessary for optimal safety and efficiency.

Why would dive equipment be different, with a single "best" and everything else a mistake? It goes against all of human experience. There is never a single best, everything is a compromise.

 

[boulderjohn]

Yeah? What does he dive?

A bp/w, but not the strict DIR configuration he pioneered. I haven't dived with him myself. I got this from a strict DIR diver who has.

 

[mainedvr]

Now that I have switch to the long hose and wear my back up on a necklace, when I see pictures of someone wearing the octo long and on a breakaway, I can see all the issues I had with them and why clearly now. To each their own but I think other than as one poster said the face plant issue with new divers, BP/W is the only way to fly....IMO

Since I am now a cross over, so I also wonder why hogarthian isn't standard, and why PADI OW doesn't teach that. Long hose for donation and bungee for backup just make so much sense. Bp/W with basic harness is so much more. However, I really only started to appreciate this method after I tried it tho. It take a open minded diver, who is willing to try things that is counter intuitive.

I used to have lots of reservation about hogarthian style. The questions I asked when I see hogarthian setup were like this: why do I want to donate what I am breathing and go to octo myself? why not my OOA go for my octo instead? Why do I need a long hose for donation since I am holding onto my bubby's BC (Remember PADI OW class) already? Why use that low tech, cheap looking, uncomfortable looking, 2 inch webbing why I can have a comfort harness with quick release (like DR translate)? why only one d-ring per shoulder? They are not enough. Why no weight integration and storage pockets? ............

All of us, who adapted this style of diving know the answer to these questions. But for new divers, none makes sense even if someone tell them.

 

[Ste Wart]

Does anybody have a photo of a worn out wing? How old is it? I am talking about a wing, that has seen it's share of patches sewn in it, etc, etc, etc.

I've got Photos of me in it, but not the day it died.

I had a Zeagle Escape wing on my BP. Lasted from 2005-2009, did approx 1500 dives and then succumbed to pin prick leaks all over. Good wing though, had cost not been an issue I would have bought another, I went with a WTX3 instead.

 

[Lorenzoid]

I am curious why bp/wings (usually) are only a 'tec' thing. They seem to be optimal and I am curious why this would not be a first choice for any diver? . . . .

I was on a boat recently where the majority of divers had BP/W rigs, and one woman who had a traditional jacket-style BCD asked one of the divers how comfortable their BP/W could be, given that one's back is typically up against bare metal, and the shoulder straps typically have no padding either. She clearly didn't see the appeal. I think comfort is a big consideration for many resort-type divers. They want to dive in a (sorry to use a tired metaphor) Cadillac with cushy padding everywhere, not a Formula 1 car with bare metal sticking out, even though the latter may give a more "optimal" (performance-wise) ride. Keep in mind that a fair percentage of divers are old geezers.