Why is DIR controversial?

[Hank49]

I don't agree Dennis.....it's just the name. I've NEVER met a dir diver in person (well maybe once...I did see a long hose) and never heard of it until I joined SB. But when I first saw it discussed here I had a negative reaction, because of the name.
Look through the last 3 years worth of threads and it's the same thing,....over and over. And if we could look forward to 2115, it'll still be the same arguments. Just new names asking the same old question....
But I have adapted my diving due to many of the ideas I've picked up in the DIR forum.
It's a great philosophy. I still dive solo and don't have a long hose yet....but someday....

 

[ffestpirate]

But there are other people working in surgery who teach that their way is the best way. That makes you guilty by association. Since that seems to be the argument from the DIR haters side, it works for everything. Sorry you are a butthead, but I know someone who works in surgery who is a butthead. Tough break for you.

Chris

I agree with that. I avoid generalizations. A + A does not always = B. I liked Dennis's response: "I mean most of us think we are diving the right way for our purposes". I would be more interested to learn more if my methods were also respected. In order to be DIR, you have to embrace the whole philosophy, correct? You can't cross hoses and wear pink, correct? There are some good DIR methods that I have read about or been taught and incorporated into my diving. There are also some DIR methods that I don't like, or don't work for me. My complaint is with DIR advocates who tell you it's all or none. Or as Dennis put it: "the few fanatical internet zealots that give DIR a bad rep". If I don't do everything uniformly, then I suck. Those are the ones I have a problem with.

 

[Rick Murchison]

You are just looking for a fight. Have at it. I have no desire to sit here and argue the stupidity of the DIR moniker with you. It is a losing situation because nothing I say would be good enough for you. There is no way to change history and the angst that "DIR" has with it. Since I can't change it, call me what you want as that's what you're going to do anyway. I didn't come up with the name.

I dive the GUE way. GUE uses DIR principals, but also adds other stuff. Don't lump me in with elitist DIR divers. Do you do anything in your diving that is also used by "DIR divers?" If so, then you are a DIR diver, and thus one of "us". Doesn't that make you an elitist butthead?

EDIT: I take it back. Feel free to lump me in with the DIR divers. It's better than the alternative from what I can tell.
Chris

Let me be perfectly clear here.
The question is "Why is DIR controversial?"
I have given you the answer, clear and simple.
You want to defend the confrontational nature of the term by talking about the soundness of the practices. That is a fallacious argument, for it isn't about the soundness of the practices*, it is about the arrogant elitism inherent in the words "doing it right" - or not.
By any logical measure, the choice of words creates mutually exclusive sets. If "DIR" means "doing it right" then "not DIR" means "not doing it right."
And that is why "DIR" is so controversial.
It is no more complicated than that.
If you insist on clinging to the meaning of the acronym, you are insisting on confrontation and controversy.
Rick

*FWIW, I don't have any major issues with the equipment, practices and procedures generally labeled "DIR." Indeed, when the term was coined we had already adopted many of the principles and practices ourselves. I have some very specific practices and procedures that are the right way to do things that aren't in that set. You want to tell me that's not doing it right then go ahead. But don't expect me to feel all warm and fuzzy and friendly when you do it.

 

[H2Andy]

it is about the arrogant elitism inherent in the words "doing it right" - or not.

there's inherent elitism only because you believe there is

i find no inherent elitism in those words

maybe the problem is perception, not the term itself

 

[Rick Murchison]

there's inherent elitism only because you believe there is

i find no inherent elitism in those words

maybe the problem is perception, not the term itself

Your use of lower case everywhere isn't right Andy. Your punctuation isn't right.
Perhaps it's just a perceptual thing, though...
(you do understand that I'm really nicer than how I appear here, right?)
Rick

 

[H2Andy]

hey, you say it's elitist, i say it isn't

who's right?

this is much ado about nothing

if some dweeb wants to call himself "the Only good diver in the world"

shoot .. let him

i'd dive with him, see what gives ... if he has good things to offer, i'll learn from him, if not ... move on

i think it's odd how some people's egos react to that threat to their psyches

 

[Diver Dennis]

I don't agree Dennis.....it's just the name. I've NEVER met a dir diver in person (well maybe once...I did see a long hose) and never heard of it until I joined SB. But when I first saw it discussed here I had a negative reaction, because of the name.
Look through the last 3 years worth of threads and it's the same thing,....over and over. And if we could look forward to 2115, it'll still be the same arguments. Just new names asking the same old question....
But I have adapted my diving due to many of the ideas I've picked up in the DIR forum.
It's a great philosophy. I still dive solo and don't have a long hose yet....but someday....

I see your point Hank. I do dive with DIR people and have never met one in person who has been anything but great. Maybe it's just the internet thing.

 

[Rick Murchison]

hey, you say it's elitist, i say it isn't

who's right?

this is much ado about nothing

if some dweeb wants to call himself "the Only good diver in the world"

shoot .. let him

i'd dive with him, see what gives ... if he has good things to offer, i'll learn from him, if not ... move on

i think it's odd how some people's egos react to that threat to their psyches

Once again, the question wasn't "how should folks react?" or "what is the right way to do things?" The question was "Why is DIR controversial?" and the answer is and forever will remain, "Because when you tell people they aren't doing it right it is controversial."
Defense of the position won't change its controversial nature.
Rick

 

[H2Andy]

Once again, the question wasn't "how should folks react?" or "what is the right way to do things?" The question was "Why is DIR controversial" and the answer is and forever will remain, "Because when you tell people they aren't doing it right it is controversial."
Defense of the position won't change its controversial nature.
Rick

yes by George... this great wrong must be set right!

how dare the little urchins!



Rick, go ahead and tell me i'm not doing it right ... go ahead...

you will be astounded what an effect it will have!

 

[namabiru]

Wait a tick. But I thought the DIR principle is such that if you don't do *all* of the DIR things, then you still are not a DIR diver. Is this correct? So if you did everything, but bought girly pink fins for some strange reason, you're not DIR.

But the concept of DIR people calling non-DIR people "wrong" isn't taught in the DIR courses.

It's an individual's DIR diver's choice to become fanatical in this sense, much like those who claim one religion is "right" while everyone else is wrong. So it's not DIR in itself which advocates the "right and wrong" way to dive. Rather, it's individual divers who treat DIR as, and excuse my phrase, a cult. It's individual divers who, due to inherent personality traits, conceive DIR as a Higher Level of Diving only achievable to elite members of the diving community such as themselves. In order to maintain the "high level", individual divers elevate the status of DIR, as well as reaffirm their belief in the DIR way, by telling non-members that they are "wrong".

But not even all DIR divers act this way. It's individuals. But, in the sense of human nature, getting sick at one Olive Garden doesn't really entice you to want to visit others. Yes? So if you run into some fanatical DIR divers at first, that's where the negative perceptions come in. Then again, there *could* also be other DIR divers who perceive these fanatical members of the club as being a bit odd. It's like families. Certainly everyone has a Cousin Eddie in their family, yes, but he/she's still a family member.

Am I on the money, or getting close?