Why is becoming a DM considered not worth it?

[ColinT3]

Yea, sidemount and boat diving don't go together super well. Most of my diving is in caves these days, so it works perfectly for that.

No issues at all diving sidemount from boats, be they day boats, larger liveaboards from the main boat, or from zodiacs...

 

[chiayx]

Thailand and Malaysia are definitely NOT on the same tier. Thailand is so much better than Malaysia!

I'm curious however how could Philippines be cheaper, considering Philippines is notoriously a more expensive country...
I'd be going back to Koh Lipe, because I've dived there before and I know the school. The dive sites were nice (bit as much as Komodo obviously but much better than Malaysia) and the price is quite cheap!

have you been to barracuda point in Sipadan, Malaysia?

 

[LI-er]

Talk about a hijacked thread..

 

[Mr_D]

Hello!
I just recently fell in love with diving, like I've never liked anything in my life before, and I was thinking about getting my DM.
I know the reasons to do it change if from person to person but I'm wondering why so many people say doing the DM if you don't plan to work is useless.

I disagree, in for a penny in for a pound. Getting more proficient and grabbing that next rung on the ladder is just an extension of the hobby. I got my OW in 1996 and by 2001 I was an instructor with a full-time day job, I just wanted to reach that level of the hobby.

Go for it, life is too short. If you find out it's not for you no harm no foul.

 

[Leatherboot69]

I disagree with the critics who say DM is pointless if you don’t intend to work as a DM. I’ve just completed my DM. I’m on 98 dives, of which 18 were DM training dives and 10 were fun/practice dives during my DM training.

I started with no desire to work as a DM, and I just thought it would be fun, I’d get to do more diving and I’d get to learn more, working with instructors. DM gave me all of that. The main consideration is going into it with your eyes open and understanding whether it will give you what you want.

DM made me a better diver, period. In terms of specific individual dive skills such as buoyancy I could have worked on those in other ways such as fun diving. But having a structure to my progression got me out diving more, and I had a lot of time learning from instructors. It also helped me to perfect the basics. I also encountered lots of new situations that I wouldn’t have otherwise encountered apart from in training, such as a real life aggressively panicking student diver spitting out their regulator underwater, things like that.

But I think the next step in being a good diver is about dive leadership. I improved my situational awareness, group leadership, wider understanding, task loading and wider skills (I have no desire to get into tech diving or full team diving; I enjoy recreational diving for what it is, and I want to be good at it, but that’s where I stop). I also met other divers with a similar mindset and at a similar level, and it helped embed me in the dive community of my LDS. I learned things that were only really relevant to working as a DM (such as conducting a DSD), but they were generally taught in such a way that I picked up lots of transferable lessons for wider diving.

Anyway, after a year of training a day or two and an evening per month to be a DM without intending to work as one, I now plan to work as a DM for my LDS lol…!

 

[Lorenzoid]

I disagree with the critics who say DM is pointless if you don’t intend to work as a DM. I’ve just completed my DM. I’m on 98 dives, of which 18 were DM training dives and 10 were fun/practice dives during my DM training.

I started with no desire to work as a DM, and I just thought it would be fun, I’d get to do more diving and I’d get to learn more, working with instructors. DM gave me all of that. The main consideration is going into it with your eyes open and understanding whether it will give you what you want.

DM made me a better diver, period. In terms of specific individual dive skills such as buoyancy I could have worked on those in other ways such as fun diving. But having a structure to my progression got me out diving more, and I had a lot of time learning from instructors. It also helped me to perfect the basics. I also encountered lots of new situations that I wouldn’t have otherwise encountered apart from in training, such as a real life aggressively panicking student diver spitting out their regulator underwater, things like that.

But I think the next step in being a good diver is about dive leadership. I improved my situational awareness, group leadership, wider understanding, task loading and wider skills (I have no desire to get into tech diving or full team diving; I enjoy recreational diving for what it is, and I want to be good at it, but that’s where I stop).

I followed this thread on and off and don't recall how many commented to the effect that "DM is pointless if you don't intend to work as a DM." Some, perhaps. I think the more frequent comment was just that there are more efficient ways to acquire the skills you mention. You don't have to aspire to tech diving to work with an instructor who possesses tech-level skills and can show you some of that which is applicable to rec diving. The DM course is readily available, it can be fun, and your skills will likely improve, but the focus is on leading and teaching other divers, not so much on truly developing and honing your skills. If you were fortunate enough to have an instructor teaching the DM course who is a tech diver, you may have gotten more out of it than is typical, but finding that kind of instructor isn't always easy. In summary, taking some lessons with a tech-level instructor (whether that is a formal course such as Intro To Tech or GUE Fundamentals or a custom lessons package) with the specific goal of improving skills will likely get one to a higher skill level more directly than the DM course (if a DM course would ever get one to that level).

That said, it's great that you got what you wanted out of your course.

 

[Wibble]

I disagree with the critics who say DM is pointless if you don’t intend to work as a DM. I’ve just completed my DM. I’m on 98 dives, of which 18 were DM training dives and 10 were fun/practice dives during my DM training.

I started with no desire to work as a DM, and I just thought it would be fun, I’d get to do more diving and I’d get to learn more, working with instructors. DM gave me all of that. The main consideration is going into it with your eyes open and understanding whether it will give you what you want.

DM made me a better diver, period. In terms of specific individual dive skills such as buoyancy I could have worked on those in other ways such as fun diving. But having a structure to my progression got me out diving more, and I had a lot of time learning from instructors. It also helped me to perfect the basics. I also encountered lots of new situations that I wouldn’t have otherwise encountered apart from in training, such as a real life aggressively panicking student diver spitting out their regulator underwater, things like that.

But I think the next step in being a good diver is about dive leadership. I improved my situational awareness, group leadership, wider understanding, task loading and wider skills (I have no desire to get into tech diving or full team diving; I enjoy recreational diving for what it is, and I want to be good at it, but that’s where I stop). I also met other divers with a similar mindset and at a similar level, and it helped embed me in the dive community of my LDS. I learned things that were only really relevant to working as a DM (such as conducting a DSD), but they were generally taught in such a way that I picked up lots of transferable lessons for wider diving.

Anyway, after a year of training a day or two and an evening per month to be a DM without intending to work as one, I now plan to work as a DM for my LDS lol…!

This seems mildly similar to the BSAC-style club model, but with PADI.

Having decent dive leaders is important with novices especially in less than favourable conditions (poor vis, currents, etc.). Doing some training for those dive leaders makes a lot of sense as newer divers would have more opportunities for buddies used to helping to develop people.

@Edward3c - would be interested in your opinion on this.

 

[senseichavez]

Because it isn't designed to improve your skills. The course is designed to make you a pro, period. However, as usual, good instructor trainers could make a difference.

If your goal is to improve your diving, after rescue the best option is likely tech diving, starting from introductory courses (fundie/essential/intro/whatever you like) if your basic skills are not top notch yet.


Cool! I would love to do it but can't


See above: the DM course is not designed to improve your skills. If that's your goal, tech diving is a better path.


If being a DM is what you need to do this, just do it


Good, but really unrelated to becoming a better diver


Because it isn't a course to improve your diving


In your case, it seems you need it. Go for it

Only if you want to first improve your skills, consider an introductory tech course, before or during the DM.

Lastly, be aware of the cheap courses: ensure the quality is very high.

Good luck!

I think it absolutely makes you a better diver...any education is education and practice. How to aid and care for your divers makes YOU a better diver for self and others. So maybe inherently tech diving can improve your personal diving skills more, it certainly doesn't exclude a strong DM program from developing you as a diver. My 2 cents.

 

[ginti]

I think it absolutely makes you a better diver...

I have never said the opposite. Even just staying underwater makes you a better diver (except when reinforcing bad habits). That was not the point of my post. I think @Lorenzoid explained it better in his post #206 :

I followed this thread on and off and don't recall how many commented to the effect that "DM is pointless if you don't intend to work as a DM." Some, perhaps. I think the more frequent comment was just that there are more efficient ways to acquire the skills you mention.

....

The DM course is readily available, it can be fun, and your skills will likely improve, but the focus is on leading and teaching other divers, not so much on truly developing and honing your skills.

....

In summary, taking some lessons with a tech-level instructor (whether that is a formal course such as Intro To Tech or GUE Fundamentals or a custom lessons package) with the specific goal of improving skills will likely get one to a higher skill level more directly than the DM course (if a DM course would ever get one to that level).

 

[34109411]

ahh sound like me when i was young and beautiful. At one point in your life your priority will change...trust me !

Thank you I don't care about the money, as I said I am currently travelling long term and I would spend the same amount travelling for 2 months!