Why is becoming a DM considered not worth it?

[Lorenzoid]

This is nice, but is not the only criterion for the value of learning something new. Does learning how to control the power of my strobe to match the ambient light help the team? Does knowing that is a French Grunt and not a Bluestriped Grunt help the team? Does realizing that most of the life I see underwater is animal and not plant help the team? Does the skill set and equipment configuration to safely dive Solo help the team? The team is just one way to dive, and GUE teaches it pretty well. But it is not the only way or reason to dive.

And I'm sure that the instructor who said that did not mean to imply helping the team is the only criterion for the value of learning something new. You're twisting it around. "Something new" is a tool or bit of knowledge, and I suppose it very well could be handling a camera/strobe, or marine science knowledge. Diving with at least one other person is the relevant context we're talking about here, not solo. It absolutely can't hurt, in learning something new, to consider how it might be employed to make your buddy's dive safer, more productive, more enjoyable or whatever, depending on what the goal of the dive is. Helping your buddy is certainly not the only reason to learn something new, but the instructor's suggestion to their IDC students to consider that reason in addition to the obvious ones really stuck with me.

The anecdote about what I overheard an instructor say was just a footnote to the main point of my post, which is that aiming for a high level of precision is not "egocentric." Being able to achieve a stable position and more precisely control one's position in the water without having to devote too much brain bandwidth and/or physical exertion to it enables a diver to better focus on whatever the task is at hand, whether that is sharing air, deploying a DSMB at a safety stop, or just taking photographs. Your point that "perfect" trim is not required for this is well taken, but as I said, aiming for this higher level of precision in a course or on practice dives is what may make the difference when something actually goes wrong and you revert to whatever level of precision you can muster.

 

[curamax]

In your case, you also got a social life, which is easier when taking a DM course than solo traveling to dive.

That said, to become a really good diver, you also need to dive in many different conditions. By that I mean, at some point move on. Catch some wild currents, rough surface conditions, schooling sharks, etc.

Exactly.

Isa.nerwen ,​

Become better diver its a journey not a destination. Be DM its not going to make you better diver, you are going to become better diver with the experience you got in the way.

In my personal experience i did my first dive in 1995, the 0W IN 2006, AOW in 2010, rescue diver 2017, solo diver 2018, and DM in 2020., and I got those certifications when I was ready for them,

I personally enjoy the rescue diver course, and the SOLO DIVER,

Just continue diving and thats it,

 

[Leatherboot69]

Sorry I just saw this post. I would have responded sooner if I had seen it earlier.

Doesn't matter what MSD was called. The MSD certification does not provide a diver with any additional skills, knowledge, experience or give them the ability to do anything more than he or she did prior to obtaining the certification. It's a useless "trophy" of sorts, whether it's printed on environmentally wasting plastic or a virtual e-card.

It's great that you learned loads from gaining 5 specialties and getting up to 50 dives. But that has nothing to do with obtaining the MSD certification which is simply recognition of the achievement and yet another excuse for PADI to reach into your pockets.

It’s the free market Baby… If tokens of achievement motivate people to get trained and get out diving and enjoying themselves then literally who cares? People criticise PADI for making money but it must be doing something right if customers vote with their wallets. I don’t have a problem with that. Don’t like PADI, don’t dive PADI

 

[Zef]

Sorry I just saw this post. I would have responded sooner if I had seen it earlier.

Doesn't matter what MSD was called. The MSD certification does not provide a diver with any additional skills, knowledge, experience or give them the ability to do anything more than he or she did prior to obtaining the certification. It's a useless "trophy" of sorts, whether it's printed on environmentally wasting plastic or a virtual e-card.

It's great that you learned loads from gaining 5 specialties and getting up to 50 dives. But that has nothing to do with obtaining the MSD certification which is simply recognition of the achievement and yet another excuse for PADI to reach into your pockets.

I am glad you mentioned PADI at the end of your post, because the NAUI MSD program is much more challenging...having "earned" the NAUI MSD certification as well as PADI DM certification, I can assure anyone that NAUI's MSD is more thorough and challenging than anything PADI has to offer from recreational and professional level certification with the possible exception being their Tech based diving certs, as I have no experience with PADI's Tech courses.

-Z

 

[Leatherboot69]

I am glad you mentioned PADI at the end of your post, because the NAUI MSD program is much more challenging...having "earned" the NAUI MSD certification as well as PADI DM certification, I can assure anyone that NAUI's MSD is more thorough and challenging than anything PADI has to offer from recreational and professional level certification with the possible exception being their Tech based diving certs, as I have no experience with PADI's Tech courses.

-Z

It’s great that you’ve done this training but regardless, it’s basically a massive money grabbing humblebrag. The MSD certification does not provide a diver with any additional skills, knowledge, experience or give them the ability to do anything more than he or she did prior to obtaining the certification. It's a useless "trophy" of sorts, whether it's printed on environmentally wasting plastic or a virtual e-card.

It's great that you learned loads from doing eight training dives and a theory course. But that has nothing to do with obtaining the MSD certification which is simply recognition of the achievement and yet another excuse for NAUI to reach into your pockets.

(BTW for PADI MSD I did 11 training dives, and I did the PADI Dive Theory course separately)

 

[Leatherboot69]

Meanwhile, the AOW divers with ten dives are just going out and having fun diving, looking at the fishes and dreaming about their future DM course, whilst the experienced divers of SB spend their time arguing about who gets to call themself ‘Advanced’ and how Master Scuba Divers are nothing of the sort

 

[missoulaman1969]

Because it isn't designed to improve your skills. The course is designed to make you a pro, period. However, as usual, good instructor trainers could make a difference.

If your goal is to improve your diving, after rescue the best option is likely tech diving, starting from introductory courses (fundie/essential/intro/whatever you like) if your basic skills are not top notch yet.


Cool! I would love to do it but can't


See above: the DM course is not designed to improve your skills. If that's your goal, tech diving is a better path.


If being a DM is what you need to do this, just do it


Good, but really unrelated to becoming a better diver


Because it isn't a course to improve your diving


In your case, it seems you need it. Go for it

Only if you want to first improve your skills, consider an introductory tech course, before or during the DM.

Lastly, be aware of the cheap courses: ensure the quality is very high.

Good luck!

I do beg to differ on one point, IF you choose the right DM venue, it can improve your skills TANGENTIALLY.

What do I mean? See below…​

Thank you for the comment!
I mean becoming a DM will improve my diving because I will get to dive more, but I also don't mind the labour and I'd like to be able to get better at navigation (I suck at it, that's why I want a challenge haha).
I also just want to spend some time diving and working.

But the consideration about tech dive is very interesting. I love to go deep and I really want to go deeper and I know it's only possible with tech diving, although I don't know much - going deeper than 40m is not recreational anymore right?
I will look more into it.

Regarding cheap courses - it's simply cheaper because I'm in SEA and it's cheaper here, but in general I think paying for 2 dives a day for 2 months works out as mote expensive than the course.

I agree and if you choose the right place to do your DM, one that offers unlimited free diving for DM candidates, and offer to assist active DMs through the course on regular dives and excursions, you will vastly improve your skills during the course, but it’s not the course, it’s tangential.

I highly suggest taking a dive theory course as well. Many places gloss over theory just enough to get you through the DM test. Theory is extremely important to understand through the rest of your diving career.

Since you are in SE Asia, I highly suggest Bongo Bongo Divers in Dauin Philippines for your DM course, thats where I did mine. Over 100 dives in 5 weeks… actively DM’ing and guiding with them after cert for 2 weeks.

DM was so rewarding for me that 9 months later I made the leap to instructor. I had been certified since 1992 and had just under 1k dives when I did DM. Now in 18 months since DM I have now almost doubled my
number of dives without really trying…

 

[ginti]

IF you choose the right DM venue, it can improve your skills TANGENTIALLY.

Everyone agrees on this point, it doesn't go against what I said