Why give primary instead of alternate regulator?

[lowviz]

I do primary donate as it puts my own alternate right under my chin in case I need it, it seems smoother donation,

From a solo diver's POV:

It might happen someday that some needy diver happens to grab my primary secondary. So what? Not worth training for, probably never happen. But if it ever does, I have a tested backup bungeed to my neck.

 

[Foothills]

I have been involved in only 1 real life OOG situation, and the distance between myself and the OOG individual was enough of a distance away that I was able to manage the donate (which was alternate, and before I was tech trained and configured). I have subsequently been in and observed real life donate situations and in all of those cases the donor identified the situation and initiated the donation. There has been a mix of alternate and primary donate.

I have also witnessed a necklaced reg get "de-necklaced" at least twice, so I suspect that if a panicked diver grabbed a necklaced reg and yarded on it, they'd end up in possession of it (perhaps sans mouthpiece, but still).

 

[Diver below 83]

On balance, I think I would prefer Herpes to drowning.

If you're referring to the possibility of contracting Herpes whilst conducting training then avoiding training with those who are obviously suffering from Herpes would be my approach.

That said, in over thirty years of diving, including being taught how to buddy breath and teaching others how to do it, plus sharing primaries countless times during more modern training; I have never caught anything from a mouthpiece and don't know anyone who has. Of course that's just my experience, if you have evidence that primary donate is a significant source of Herpes transmission in divers then I'd be interested to read it.

Do I smell a new thread coming with a poll? Lmao

 

[lowviz]

I have also witnessed a necklaced reg get "de-necklaced" at least twice ...//...

I would be most interested in a bit more info concerning these first-hand accounts.

Please share...

 

[Brian Huff]

Yet Padi is now agnostic as to primary or alternate donate. So there are very few classes that guarantee, by standards, that their graduates are trained in alternate donate. On reflection, we only need to look at Air2's to realize that would be the case in practice for a while anyway. [ETDelete: BSAC training alternate donate, as they train alternate take. Which I forgot. Thanks Bob.]

That's a good point. In my OW we had a mix of rental equipment. Of the 10 people in the class, two were given Air2 bcd jackets, of which I was one. At the time, I didn't think much of it, when it came time to do air sharing, the instructor just said "for those of you with Air2, you'll give your buddy your primary regulator and use the Air2 for yourself". OK, no problem, we did it just fine... except that I hated the Air2 because I could not turn my head to my right and see my son/buddy. (Air2 is of course another argument). What's interesting to note is that while I had an Air2, my son/buddy did not. So one of us learned primary donate, the other, alternate.

Being new here, it's been fascinating to watch this one subject garner so much debate.

 

[MichaelMc]

Being new here, it's been fascinating to watch this one subject garner so much debate.

A key underwater imperative is ensuring you, or a distressed diver, have air.

- Some see issues with the most common way donating is taught, particularly if coupled with inattention to the quality or state of a reg that is just for some other diver, not the diver themself. The incentives are not very aligned with it being well at hand and reliable.
- Some see issues with doing something different, from much OW training.
- Some conflate donation method with rather long hoses, 7', and think the 7' is clutter in OW, so discard the donate method.

All around how some other diver might need air. And the other diver might be panicked or not that well trained.

 

[seeker242]

Now group 2 believes in giving or taking the alternate. Since we all double check our buddies gear before getting in water we know that the buddy has their alternate in the triangle.

Not necessarily. I saw at least 2 divers today with their octos just flapping about wherever. Just because it was there before doing checks, does not necessarily mean it's still there. See one on nearly every trip where it's not in the triangle.

Again best case scenario buddy sees diver in trouble and hands them their octo and everyone lives to tell the tale.
Worse case scenario diver has problem and buddy isn't paying attention. They swim over and grab the alternate buddy and again live to tell the tale.

Worse case is actually worse than that. Worse case scenario diver has problem and buddy isn't paying attention. They swim over and try to grab the alternate. Cant find it and now go into full blow panic. They either grab the primary, which leaves diver 1 in a OOG situation, because he can't find the alternate either, or they bolt for the surface or they start inhaling water.

 

[MaxBottomtime]

 

[Brian Huff]

A key underwater imperative is ensuring you, or a distressed diver, have air.

- Some see issues with the most common way donating is taught, particularly if coupled with inattention to the quality or state of a reg that is just for some other diver, not the diver themself.
- Some see issues with doing something different, from much OW training.
- Some conflate donation method with rather long hoses, 7', and think the 7' is clutter in OW, so discard the donate method.

All around how some other diver might need air. And the other diver might be panicked or not that well trained.

Yup, I certainly understand that.

Just seems like the simple solution is to learn both, practice both, then do what works best for you in a situation.

This particular topic feels like a "What's best, vanilla or chocolate?" argument.

 

[MichaelMc]

Just seems like the simple solution is to learn both, practice both, then do what works best for you in a situation.

Ideally yes. Learn, try, and be proficient in both.

But:
- Optimal setups for one are not optimal for the other. Hose lengths and attachment points differ.
- Teaching one with the hose lengths for the other makes it really odd.
- Training time is expensive to the shop. So teaching everyone both is problematic.
- A reg that is 'just a backup in case your buddy runs out of air, which should never happen as scuba diving is very safe' is cheaper than one the same quality as you breath normally. Compare the prices for primary and 'octo' regs for proof of this mindset, particularly on low priced reg sets. Not that you need a high priced reg, but some octos are very cheap.
- One method requires the donor to swap regs. Maybe that stresses out your students. Despite it being a skill they must master to a 'reasonable comfortable, fluid, repeatable manner'. And is one of the most basic things they must learn to do beyond clearing their mask.

I think to a primary donate diver, the two might sound like this.
Buddy 1: You get the just in case reg that should work and is somewhere, but doesn't affect me.
Buddy 2: You get the reg I'm breathing and I switch to my backup I know I may need.
Maybe not chocolate vs vanilla in terms of the diver's interest in the reg they will donate.