Why give primary instead of alternate regulator?

[loosenit2]

She was taught by the TDI bloke mentioned above. On club dives you have to have been trained if using a primary donate config, some configs are not considered having an AS (alternative supply) and so The DO cannot allow them. That never happens though.

In my opinion either way is workable, but do dive as you are trained

Being comfortable and rehearsed with your gear, to the point of building muscle memory, is absolutely essential to success but please define what you mean by "being trained". What constitutes training in your opinion?

 

[Superlyte27]

I've seen three real OOA situations. Two of them were at blue grotto in the span of a year. I didn't know any of the perpetrators.

In all three instances the OOA diver grabbed the primary reg without warning or communication. I suspect they were close to passing out, they knew the reg worked, they knew were the reg was located, and they knew how the reg was fastened (dive buddy's teeth)

Frankly, if I ever run OOA, I'm not grabbing the reg down by your side that you probably haven't tested in months and have dragged in the mud every time your buoyancy sucked. I'm grabbing the one I know works.

 

[chillyinCanada]

I've seen three real OOA situations. Two of them were at blue grotto in the span of a year. I didn't know any of the perpetrators.

In all three instances the OOA diver grabbed the primary reg without warning or communication. I suspect they were close to passing out, they knew the reg worked, they knew were the reg was located, and they knew how the reg was fastened (dive buddy's teeth)

Frankly, if I ever run OOA, I'm not grabbing the reg down by your side that you probably haven't tested in months and have dragged in the mud every time your buoyancy sucked. I'm grabbing the one I know works.

My hope and wish for you is that you're never in that situation.

 

[AJ]

Frankly, if I ever run OOA, I'm not grabbing the reg down by your side that you probably haven't tested in months and have dragged in the mud every time your buoyancy sucked. I'm grabbing the one I know works.

I hope you never have to dive with a buddy that treats his gear like that. One thing I learned from my training is to check everything everytime before going into the water. That means lights, wing, deflators, inflators, ait supply primary and secondary. I know everything works when I enter the water.

During the dive I frequently check air supply, second stage, bubbles myself and buddy, etc. It has become part of my ritual but it's also has a lot to do with awareness. It maybe sound time consuming, but it's really not. I have this skills automated and don't even think about anymore. During almost every dive, at the end, I practice OOG/SMB/etc. Therefore I know my skills are up to par. However I do hope I never have to use them in a real emergency if I can prevent it with all the checks.

 

[KenGordon]

Being comfortable and rehearsed with your gear, to the point of building muscle memory, is absolutely essential to success but please define what you mean by "being trained". What constitutes training in your opinion?

Training is a process where a formal system is followed to transfer knowledge. It is different to experience, or learning by watching. When a point is missed or a standard not reached the training involves rectifying the problem.

In the case of AS a diver is shown what to do several times and cannot pass the course without satisfactory performance. Change how that works and some feedback and review is required, otherwise how does the diver know they are doing it properly?

 

[doctormike]

I hope you never have to dive with a buddy that treats his gear like that. One thing I learned from my training is to check everything everytime before going into the water. That means lights, wing, deflators, inflators, ait supply primary and secondary. I know everything works when I enter the water.

During the dive I frequently check air supply, second stage, bubbles myself and buddy, etc. It has become part of my ritual but it's also has a lot to do with awareness. It maybe sound time consuming, but it's really not. I have this skills automated and don't even think about anymore. During almost every dive, at the end, I practice OOG/SMB/etc. Therefore I know my skills are up to par. However I do hope I never have to use them in a real emergency if I can prevent it with all the checks.

Yeah, yeah. In the words of Mike Tyson, everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth. It's amazing how our "automated" skills degrade so quickly when it's not a drill.

You were given some real world reports about what actually happens in OOA situations by someone who has a LOT of experience, to help us make better contingency plans. Are you saying that because of your buddy selection, gear maintenance and training, nothing like that would ever happen to you?

 

[Hickdive]

Assuming the donor is using a hog-rig with a long hose:

In primary donate the primary is certainly working, is easily located on any diver, and is delivering the correct gas.

Beyond that, and as evidenced by many of the comments on this thread, that cannot be said of all other AAS.

If you subscribe to the view that a diver who is out of air will signal and then have the AAS passed to them then where that AAS comes from is irrelevant but some methods are needlessly complex.

If you subscribe to the view that who is out of air may be panicking and be tempted to snatch a regulator from their buddy's mouth then primary donate from a hog rig, even if it's more of a take than a donate, is superior.

If you choose to primary donate but use something other than the hog rig e.g. donating primary and switching to an Air2 or similar, then it is much more likely to fail due to increased complexity.

 

[hammet]

Do you like herpes, because primary donate is how you get herpes.

 

[Hickdive]

Do you like herpes, because primary donate is how you get herpes.

On balance, I think I would prefer Herpes to drowning.

If you're referring to the possibility of contracting Herpes whilst conducting training then avoiding training with those who are obviously suffering from Herpes would be my approach.

That said, in over thirty years of diving, including being taught how to buddy breath and teaching others how to do it, plus sharing primaries countless times during more modern training; I have never caught anything from a mouthpiece and don't know anyone who has. Of course that's just my experience, if you have evidence that primary donate is a significant source of Herpes transmission in divers then I'd be interested to read it.

 

[doctormike]

if you have evidence that primary donate is a significant source of Herpes transmission in divers then I'd be interested to read it.

The mechanism of herpesvirus transmission in that scenario is that the OOA diver is so grateful to the donating diver, that they often develop an intimate relationship with them after surfacing.