Why extra air when solo?

[Bert van den Berg]

A lot of good comments and suggestions... But in the end one really good reason for redundant equipment is that many/most dive operators will not let you dive solo without the redundant equipment.

 

[TMHeimer]

A lot of good comments and suggestions... But in the end one really good reason for redundant equipment is that many/most dive operators will not let you dive solo without the redundant equipment.

Agree, but don't forget the OP asked about pony bottle yes/no at 10-30' (my usual type of diving). The rare times I do boat dive I don't seek to go solo.

 

[Bert van den Berg]

I understand completely. It's funny considering different people's take on things. You don't dive solo on boat dives and I only dive solo on boat dives! If I am diving with my wife or son I don't take a pony bottle. If I'm on a boat dive without the son of wife I take the pony bottle and dive solo. Don't want to dive with an instabuddy. Love to talk to them on the boat but don't want the responsibility in the water.

 

[TMHeimer]

I understand completely. It's funny considering different people's take on things. You don't dive solo on boat dives and I only dive solo on boat dives! If I am diving with my wife or son I don't take a pony bottle. If I'm on a boat dive without the son of wife I take the pony bottle and dive solo. Don't want to dive with an instabuddy. Love to talk to them on the boat but don't want the responsibility in the water.

Yes true. I've just been pretty lucky with instabuddies (so far).

 

[markmud]

Hi Devectionist,

Your post here, Why extra air when solo? is right on.

Given that there is no good argument against carrying redundant air on a 'real' solo dive, it must come down to some people wanting to justify not having to spend the extra money and seeking validation due to their underlying uncertainty about whether they are too biased by their own wishes to make the right decision.

We read excuses such as my primary (and only) regulator system has never failed in a thousand dives. And, I take care of my equipment and have it serviced regularly; therefore, it will never fail. Or, I can do a CESA from my solo depth.

All of those excuses are a perfect bullseyes for them, until they aren't.

The creeping path from starting shallow and venturing deeper as (false) confidence grows is an easy one to go down.

Yep, rationalization can be a dangerous thing.

Logic says that statistics strongly favour redundancy of equipment. Accounts of experienced divers indicate that some of the assumed drawbacks of carrying redundant equipment, voiced by those who only do so in their mind's eye, are in fact non-issues, especially when measured against their benefits.

It really is easy to have, travel with, and dive with redundant gear.

So to those who are still looking for reasons: just get the right equipment or do not pursue the activity. Or admit that you are risking your life based on an irrational gamble, like anyone who excessively consumes substances known to be harmful.

I can't add anything to that statement--it is profound.

I think that the solo configuration, as proposed by the two common solo diver certifications, should be in fact the standard configuration for all divers.

I dive in "my" solo kit whether I am buddy diving or not. Buddies can be flaky, incompetent, and much more.

In general, if everyone dived in solo kit, diving would be more fun. Group diving would be more relaxed. I am not advocating for an abolition of the buddy system, just a refinement. Let's get real, the buddy system is a flawed system as it is currently taught.

How many of you have your buddy within an arms length or a few fin kicks away all the time while u/w?

,
m

 

[KenGordon]

How many of you have your buddy within an arms length or a few fin kicks away all the time while u/w?

I do, I generally dive in conditions where you can’t see your buddy if they get so far away as not to be a good source of gas.

If on holiday in some tropical place we still stick together. You do not need to be extremely close, just aware of each other and not a mile away.

I think a combination of always diving in easy conditions, not having regular buddies and the convenience for dive ops of ‘group’ diving means that very many people never actually dive in the buddy system and so think they need complete redundancy.

Why do people end up with nothing to breath?

1 - equipment failure
2 - failing to surface when low on gas

I claim that 99% or more of all OOG situations are 2. So why do people fail to surface when low?

1 - hard or soft overhead
2 - failure to notice
3 - notice but continue the dive anyway

1 is a case of needing to plan properly. If you are doing diving where this is a risk, do it properly. Most people are not so let’s ignore that.

2 no excuse, margins should be enough that even a photographer will notice in time. Perhaps extremely poor training? I am not sure this really happens much

3 I think this is common, I have seen people get out with 20 bar having followed a guide and not properly understood that needed to take charge of their own dive. This is also the worst problem as the buddy, if there’s is one, is likely low on gas too.

Solve 3 and most OOG issue will go away. Unfortunately it probably breaks the holiday diving business model.

 

[Bert van den Berg]

I do, I generally dive in conditions where you can’t see your buddy if they get so far away as not to be a good source of gas.

If on holiday in some tropical place we still stick together. You do not need to be extremely close, just aware of each other and not a mile away.

I think a combination of always diving in easy conditions, not having regular buddies and the convenience for dive ops of ‘group’ diving means that very many people never actually dive in the buddy system and so think they need complete redundancy.

Why do people end up with nothing to breath?

1 - equipment failure
2 - failing to surface when low on gas

I claim that 99% or more of all OOG situations are 2. So why do people fail to surface when low?

1 - hard or soft overhead
2 - failure to notice
3 - notice but continue the dive anyway

1 is a case of needing to plan properly. If you are doing diving where this is a risk, do it properly. Most people are not so let’s ignore that.

2 no excuse, margins should be enough that even a photographer will notice in time. Perhaps extremely poor training? I am not sure this really happens much

3 I think this is common, I have seen people get out with 20 bar having followed a guide and not properly understood that needed to take charge of their own dive. This is also the worst problem as the buddy, if there’s is one, is likely low on gas too.

Solve 3 and most OOG issue will go away. Unfortunately it probably breaks the holiday diving business model.

I believe that failure to notice you're getting low on air is a major contributor. I also think that this is less likely with new divers since they will be feeling less secure than the more experienced diver.

In New Zealand divers die too often because they get so absorbed with what they are doing (catching that obstinant crayfish/lobster) that they forget to look at their gas levels. Then panic sets in and they are found with their weight belts still on and their hands still clutching a catch bag. Go figure!

 

[Boston Breakwater]

I gather that for people taking a solo course, the official equipment standard is to have a pony bottle or some such thing. My question is: why? And it's a serious question, I really don't get it.

My own experience a long time ago when I first certified inland and then went home to the NW coast on break from school and wanted to see the subtidal instead of just the intertidal was that if I wanted to see it, I'd best go when the going was good and that meant going on my own. Off a nice sloping rock shelf into nearly flat water on an unusually clear day, one of the days that are very few and far between there. I don't know where I'd have found a buddy. Since I was around 10 to 20 feet, maybe 30 feet deep tops, I figured that if I got into trouble at 10 to 20 feet, I could blow and go quicker than I could either try to find and get to a buddy if I had one, or fix the problem where I was. Now that I'm getting back into diving regularly, and my favorite place to travel to will be those same remote rocky shores, I thought about formally training in solo, but I'm not enthused about having to buy more big and heavy gear. So, why do I need a pony bottle when diving at 10-30 feet? Specifically, if my regulator fails, I have a second. If that fails too, then that would be sad. But how likely is that in real life? If both of them weren't getting air, that would probably mean my first stage had to have failed (unless, I suppose, I was stupid enough to run out of air). Are first stages prone to failure?

Is the whole logic behind the extra air source that someone might run out of air in their cylinder, or is there some other reason?

 

[AfterDark]

I gather that for people taking a solo course, the official equipment standard is to have a pony bottle or some such thing. My question is: why? And it's a serious question, I really don't get it.

My own experience a long time ago when I first certified inland and then went home to the NW coast on break from school and wanted to see the subtidal instead of just the intertidal was that if I wanted to see it, I'd best go when the going was good and that meant going on my own. Off a nice sloping rock shelf into nearly flat water on an unusually clear day, one of the days that are very few and far between there. I don't know where I'd have found a buddy. Since I was around 10 to 20 feet, maybe 30 feet deep tops, I figured that if I got into trouble at 10 to 20 feet, I could blow and go quicker than I could either try to find and get to a buddy if I had one, or fix the problem where I was. Now that I'm getting back into diving regularly, and my favorite place to travel to will be those same remote rocky shores, I thought about formally training in solo, but I'm not enthused about having to buy more big and heavy gear. So, why do I need a pony bottle when diving at 10-30 feet? Specifically, if my regulator fails, I have a second. If that fails too, then that would be sad. But how likely is that in real life? If both of them weren't getting air, that would probably mean my first stage had to have failed (unless, I suppose, I was stupid enough to run out of air). Are first stages prone to failure?

Is the whole logic behind the extra air source that someone might run out of air in their cylinder, or is there some other reason?

Anything can fail, yes even a 1st stage. If you have a buddy and they have "extra" air they can help you, if not then it's up to you to help yourself. According to your post you are capable of it, within depth limitations.
If you are alone (solo) who is telling you that you need a pony bottle? You're not hearing voices are you?

During the 70's 80' and 90s' I dove without an octo 2nd stage, it wasn't needed, the people I dove with were all old school buddy breathing trained; only a few guys had octos. Sometime after 2000 I got a 2nd stage from Ebay, had it serviced and mounted on the 1st stage with a 47" hose. I started meeting people that expected a buddy to have a 2nd, 2nd stage so viola! Does that now mean I need 2nd stage octo when I dive solo? Common sense would say no. I've yet to use a 2nd, 2nd stage for any reason.

 

[Ana]

The never ending subject of redundant air.

Why is so difficult to understand that:

1- When taking a class with requirements, one has to comply with those requirements. Doesn't matter if it is equipment, behavior, or lunch hour.
2- When diving off some boat, one has to comply with the rules of that boat. Doesn't matter if the boat is private or a charter. Doesn't matter if the rule makes sense or not.
3- When you want to do your dives in a way other than the "accepted" ways of the current time, you have to do it on your own, not as part of the "community". Doesn't matter how one used to do it back when we learned or whatever other explanation.

I don't follow all the "accepted" ways of today's diving, so I don't dive with charters or pretty much with any other people. Few exceptions and always make a point to inform whoever is going to dive with me, how I do my diving. From the moment they came out with the "solo certification" I thought that was weird. That happened so long ago, even I got used to accept that most people have to be taught instead of going out and learn.

You either join the "diving society" and follow the rules or you have to find your own diving.