Why don't more dive shops display more (any?) BP/Ws?

[boulderjohn]

Why don't divers buy more BP/Ws? Because they are never introduced to them in class.

In my OW classes, I show all kinds of BCD choices and discuss the pros and cons. I show them my own BP/W, DIN valve regulators, etc., so there is no anti-BP/W bias in my presentation.

I show them all manner of alternate air setups as well, including long hose and bungeed alternate.

I am unaware of any case where one of my former OW students bought a BP/W. I am unaware of any of my former students buying a long hose configuration.

Although I do not see all my former students buy equipment, I am very much a part of the ongoing discussions in the shop about the sales of this gear and the fear that we are not selling enough to justify an inventory.

 

[PhilEllis]

In my OW classes, I show all kinds of BCD choices and discuss the pros and cons. I show them my own BP/W, DIN valve regulators, etc., so there is no anti-BP/W bias in my presentation.

I show them all manner of alternate air setups as well, including long hose and bungeed alternate.

I am unaware of any case where one of my former OW students bought a BP/W. I am unaware of any of my former students buying a long hose configuration.

Although I do not see all my former students buy equipment, I am very much a part of the ongoing discussions in the shop about the sales of this gear and the fear that we are not selling enough to justify an inventory.

John, this is a good post. Despite what us "faithfuls" would like to believe, the backplate/wing setup does not match the needs for the typical open-water vacation diver. I am not saying that they are bad for them, simply that they don't have the buyer features most divers want. It is as simple as that.

If it was the case that they aren't sold because fewer dealers stock them, your fair showing of that system would overcome that in the shop for which you work. It doesn't. There must be a reason.

Phil Ellis
www.divesports.com

 

[OldNSalty]

So, in other words, most dive shops don't carry BP/W rigs because they don't create demand for them.

Exactly

In my OW classes, I show all kinds of BCD choices and discuss the pros and cons. I show them my own BP/W, DIN valve regulators, etc., so there is no anti-BP/W bias in my presentation.

I show them all manner of alternate air setups as well, including long hose and bungeed alternate.

I am unaware of any case where one of my former OW students bought a BP/W. I am unaware of any of my former students buying a long hose configuration.

Although I do not see all my former students buy equipment, I am very much a part of the ongoing discussions in the shop about the sales of this gear and the fear that we are not selling enough to justify an inventory.

So we are back to blaming the crotch strap then. Do you actually put them in the gear and have them do at least one class with it or do you just show them?

 

[Colliam7]

In my OW classes, I show all kinds of BCD choices and discuss the pros and cons. I show them my own BP/W, DIN valve regulators, etc., so there is no anti-BP/W bias in my presentation.

I show them all manner of alternate air setups as well, including long hose and bungeed alternate.

I am unaware of any case where one of my former OW students bought a BP/W. I am unaware of any of my former students buying a long hose configuration.

Although I do not see all my former students buy equipment, I am very much a part of the ongoing discussions in the shop about the sales of this gear and the fear that we are not selling enough to justify an inventory.

OK, this is useful. It also raises a (for me, big) question. For my last OW class, for the first time, I took time during the check-out weekend to show the students a jacket BCD, a non-BP/W back-inflate BCD, and a BP/W. I put them on on land, explained the differences to them (as I see them), but DID NOT emphasize my personal preference for a BP/W, nor did I put any student in a BP/W during the class. It occurs to me that a BP/W looks pretty crude - not 'high-tech' at all, and probably appears 'low-tech', and therefore not very appealing. Consequently, I can think of a lot of reasons why a new diver might not opt for a BP/W, IF THEY HAVE NOT previously dove one. I wonder what will happen if, for my next OW class, I tell the students that I am going to have them use a BP/W for at least one Confined Water dive, and/or one OW dive. I can rotate a single unit among them, or brings several of my BPs. Certainly, I have to be sure that they are comfortable with the scuba unit R&Rs, and the weight belt R&Rs. But, I am leaning toward having each student try a BP/W at least once in the course, to see what reaction I get.

 

[boulderjohn]

But, I am leaning toward having each student try a BP/W at least once in the course, to see what reaction I get.

It may be counterproductive if it is a one shot deal, although I am not saying that with any sense of conviction.

My opinion may be based on my own first time in a BP/W, which was with a set of steel double 108s. I was a pretty experienced diver at the time, but I was very uncomfortable, primary because it was not fitted to me properly. The tanks kept shifting around on my back, throwing me off balance. Eventually my instructor figured that out and tightened everything up. As we worked to fit it to me better, which I am sure you know took quite some time, I was thinking, "What a PITA! If this were a BCD, one tug on the shoulder strap buckles would fix it." I knew the failure point theory, but I kept thinking that the benefits outweighed the risk.

 

[Bob]

OK, this is useful. It also raises a (for me, big) question. For my last OW class, for the first time, I took time during the check-out weekend to show the students a jacket BCD, a non-BP/W back-inflate BCD, and a BP/W. I put them on on land, explained the differences to them (as I see them), but DID NOT emphasize my personal preference for a BP/W, nor did I put any student in a BP/W during the class. It occurs to me that a BP/W looks pretty crude - not 'high-tech' at all, and probably appears 'low-tech', and therefore not very appealing. Consequently, I can think of a lot of reasons why a new diver might not opt for a BP/W, IF THEY HAVE NOT previously dove one. I wonder what will happen if, for my next OW class, I tell the students that I am going to have them use a BP/W for at least one Confined Water dive, and/or one OW dive. I can rotate a single unit among them, or brings several of my BPs. Certainly, I have to be sure that they are comfortable with the scuba unit R&Rs, and the weight belt R&Rs. But, I am leaning toward having each student try a BP/W at least once in the course, to see what reaction I get.

My experience is that students catch on just as fast with plates and wings as they do jackets. In fact, easier, they don't have all the buckles, pockets, cummerbuns, snaps, and air dumps to deal with. Try it and you'll be pleasantly surprised at how easily they learn, and how good their buoyancy is. almtree: Bob

 

[WeldonDowd]

My experience is that students catch on just as fast with plates and wings as they do jackets. In fact, easier, they don't have all the buckles, pockets, cummerbuns, snaps, and air dumps to deal with. Try it and you'll be pleasantly surprised at how easily they learn, and how good their buoyancy is. almtree: Bob

But did these students then buy a plate and wing?

 

[OldNSalty]

But someone asked a very good question-what is the mark-up on the 2 items. Honestly, they are going to buy some type of BC. If a jacket averages $500 and my markup is 100% vs a $400 plate where my mark up is 50% then I am not going to be inclined to carry the plates. Of course, all numbers are made up and I have no real ideal of what the true numbers would be.

 

[scubafanatic]

I think shop owners think they look horrible. After all, who would want to strap a flat metal plate onto their back? (I've heard people make essentially that comment, when looking at my gear on boats, so it isn't hypothetical.)

....if you think B/Ps are controversial, you should see the funny looks and hear the snide/puzzled comments when I'm plugging in my crotch strap....women divers seem to especially think it's 'wierd'.... ....guess I can understand that viewpoint a little bit....but the vast majority of recreational divers are casual sightseers/photographers...and definitely are NOT 'gear heads' and are just NOT into elegant/slick/intelligent gear....which pains me a little, as I'm such a perfectionist about my gear (I do a LOT of custom gear work.....and from time to time have had an observant fellow diver or boat DM make the occasional "WOW!" comment).

 

[The Kraken]

Because if you don't like your BC for some reason, you have to spent $500 to get another one.

If you don't like something about your BP/W, you may have to spend, at the max, about $350 to fix it.

Economies of scale and retail profit margins.

And, besides, they don't come with directions so many of the people they hire can't figure out how to thread the webbing, that's why they wear sandals with velcro closures, they don't know how to tie their shoes.

OK, just kidding, all you LDS owners.

the K