Why don't more dive shops display more (any?) BP/Ws?

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I think it can be explained purely in terms of market share.

I am right now on the Leisure Trend Dynamic Report cube, where I can search retail sales in categories and brands for this year and past years.

I can tell you that backplates and wings make up considerably LESS THAN 1% of the entire market of buoyancy vests sold so far this year in the United States. For an opportunity of part of that 1% of the market, they buyers are fairly brand and model specific in their wants. So, of an aggregate average dive shop that can sell 100 buoyancy devices in a year, they can expect (if sales are completely random) to sell about 1 plate, harness, and wing kit.

Given that dollars available to invest in inventory are small for most stores, and given that most of them have NEVER had a customer walk in and ask for a BP/W set-up, I think it can be expected that they will not invest their money in that inventory.

Now, for shops that have a specific customer base, the plan is completely different. But those types of shops are less likely to be seen.

Phil Ellis
Discount Scuba Gear at DiveSports.com - Buy Scuba Diving Equipment & Snorkeling Equipment

...thanks for sharing that astounding statistic, Phil ! I had no idea the B/P mkt was 1% ... WOW !!! ......that just highlights the incredible gap between the real diving universe and 'our' wierd/alien/incomprehensible alternate universe over here on Scubaboard ! ....guess I won't waste any time reading threads on when 'recreational rebreathers' will become popular...gee whiz !
 
2009 year to date (as of August 30, 2009)

Dive Equipment - $199,695,400
Dive Suits - $40,553,712
Dive Apparel - $3,003,907
Dive Services including Travel and Instruction - $194,684,667

Total Dive Industry at Professional Retail YTD2009 - $437,937,685

There is no retail tracking of private instruction revenue or direct-booked travel revenue.

Oh, year to date, the industry is down from the previous YTD figures by about 10%. Remember, this is comparing this year to a previously bad, down year.

Phil Ellis
Discount Scuba Gear at DiveSports.com - Buy Scuba Diving Equipment & Snorkeling Equipment

....I think PADI says about 1 million new divers are certified in the US annually......while gear sales are 200 - 240 million $ annually...so the average annual diver expenditure is $ 200 - $ 240 ish ??? You can barely get a basic fin/mask/snorkle BOW 'kit' for that these days.....sure looks like there are one heck of a lot of 'divers' who are NOT buying any gear !!!
 
Why don't more dive shops display more (any?) BP/Ws? Because most divers don't buy them.

Why don't divers buy more BP/Ws? Because they are never introduced to them in class.

Simple

That's exactly right.

Our local dive shop in Rohnert Park has an Apeks plate (just the plate) hanging on a peg from on of the center holes down low and to the side on the same wall as all the big fluffy. poofy poodle jackets diplayed high and proud.
I got into a discussion with the owner about how sales of the plate were going. He said he hadn't sold one in over a year and the thing is still sitting there. I asked him if he thought about rigging it up and letting one of his instructors use it or anybody for that matter, or just rig it up so it looks useable hanging on the wall. He said he didn't want to put the effort in and tie up any more money into something that nobody would buy. Plus I think he doesn't know how to rig one (between you and me)
Here is a classic example of not cultivating a market. If he was serious about selling BP/W's as units all set up he would need to spend some money up front and get his instructors in them, students in them, divemasters in them, but he won't. It's too easy just to sell a ready to go jacket out of the box with easy adjustments and they get to make 100% on them right then. No assembly required and no special or added training.

It would be interesting to do a controlled test sometime. This is all purely hypothetical.

Alternate 1:
Take a group of ten people interested in taking an open water course and take them all into a dive shop as a group to sign up. A group would be picked that have never set foot into a dive shop, so they wouldn't know what a regular dive shop sells or is supposed to look like.
Have the showroom set up with only a BP/W system as the only BC they will be using. Go through the class and the pool work. After they have had time using and getting used to the BP/W introduce them to a jacket bc and let them try it out. Include a peak performance buoyancy session in the class and make sure everyone is weighted correctly before going out to the ocean (in both rigs) and understands the concept.
Once at the ocean the students would be given the choice of using either rig for their open water check out dives. The instructors and the four divemasters would remain wearing the BP/W throughout the pool work and ocean dives. As part of the experiment the students would be required to purchase one of the two systems right after they get certified.
Which rig would the divers ultimately choose for their purchase? assuming both units were priced exactly the same including weight systems.

Alternate 2:
All the same as above except the instructor and divemasters use the BP/W in the pool
then they all switch to the jacket bc for the ocean dives.
No reasons or discussions would be allowed to the students as to why this is being done.
What would be the difference in the end purchase with this change?

Alternate 3:
The students walk in to the dive shop and all they see are jackets. They start in the jacket then half way through are introduced to the BP/W. The intructor and divemasters change rigs with them. During the ocean dives the students are given the choice of using either rig, except half of the divemasters use BP/W and the other half use Jackets. The instructor would split the 4 check out dives equally between the BP/W and the jacket.
 
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But did these students then buy a plate and wing?

Many purchase an Eclipse right out of open water. Some rent our SP Glide Plus jackets so they can compare the two. You know what most say? They like the freedom and simplicity of the Eclipse. The jacket is too confining they say. My students say that, not me. We sold three Eclipse's this week... Not every student will purchase a plate and wing, they're not for everyone. I will tell you this, for every 10 Bc's we sell, 7 are plates and wing's. Most people understand value, and when you present a customer with the value and flexibility of a plate and wing vs a jacket, the plate and wing sells itself. :palmtree: Bob
 
John, this is a good post. Despite what us "faithfuls" would like to believe, the backplate/wing setup does not match the needs for the typical open-water vacation diver. I am not saying that they are bad for them, simply that they don't have the buyer features most divers want. It is as simple as that.

If it was the case that they aren't sold because fewer dealers stock them, your fair showing of that system would overcome that in the shop for which you work. It doesn't. There must be a reason.

Phil Ellis
Discount Scuba Gear at DiveSports.com - Buy Scuba Diving Equipment & Snorkeling Equipment

...the average US diver is in their mid-upper 40's, and tends to be in an upper socio-economic demographic...especially the 'traveling' diver.....simultaneously, the average US diver is probably 'flabbier' than ever too.....with sundry health issues (back problems/joint problems/flexibility problems) ....so I can well imagine the appeal of comfy 'back padding'/shoulder quick-releases....the polar opposite of the austere/barren/stark 'metal' plate/continuous webbing concept.

......also, I'm not diving a pure B/P either......I'm diving a Deepoutdoors MATRIX Limited harness/AL plate/back pad/Oxycheq EXTREME wing/Halcyon mask pocket-vertical weight pocket system---custom system---with the 'recreational-style' shoulder-releases too......a 'spartan' B/P-continuous webbing system is actually NOT...IMHO...the optimum system for OW/liveaboard diving. I understand the advantages of the 'tech' configuration in a combat environment (caves/wrecks)....but honestly, I feel there are genuine, and unique challenges involved in 'my' type of diving that are very advanced and require a detailed understanding of the logistics/techniques of some rather advanced 'recreational' diving...requirements best met by my own 'recreational' gear configuration.
 
It may be counterproductive if it is a one shot deal, although I am not saying that with any sense of conviction.

My opinion may be based on my own first time in a BP/W, which was with a set of steel double 108s. I was a pretty experienced diver at the time, but I was very uncomfortable, primary because it was not fitted to me properly. The tanks kept shifting around on my back, throwing me off balance. Eventually my instructor figured that out and tightened everything up. As we worked to fit it to me better, which I am sure you know took quite some time, I was thinking, "What a PITA! If this were a BCD, one tug on the shoulder strap buckles would fix it." I knew the failure point theory, but I kept thinking that the benefits outweighed the risk.

I know what you are saying, but I was first introduced to this on a boat when another diver lent me hers (and used my jacket style for that dive, very generous of her). She did make adjustments for my sizing and it fit very well as soon as I stood up, before even enering the water, I knew I liked it. And as someone else pointed out, it just gets better...
 
Exactly

So we are back to blaming the crotch strap then. Do you actually put them in the gear and have them do at least one class with it or do you just show them?

OldNSalty!!! Still with the crotch strap business...???

You know, if you keep playing with it, it'll just fall off one day.......
 
Just one little point to add - I know most people know this, but reading this and another thread, there may be some confusion.

Correct me if I am wrong, but it isn't called a tech rig because it is technical. (It's actually pretty basic, spartan looking even, as some have pointed out). It's called that because it is typically what is used for "technical diving". (What is technical diving? Whole other thread..) But is is fun and rewarding to go through the options of a bp/w and think through your individual configuration. So in that sense, there are some technical issues to be thought through, compared to just buying something off the shelf and tugging a couple of straps.

As a fairly new diver, I agree with the above posters who said that more instructors (who have the necessary training) should introduce their students to bp/w. Just show them what else is available. All part of the education.
 
OldNSalty!!! Still with the crotch strap business...???

You know, if you keep playing with it, it'll just fall off one day.......

:rofl3:

No, I’ve gotten over my fear of accidental castration via the strap but there is something that is initially un-appealing to the set up I think. It is like trying to talk someone who wants a sports car into buying a Lotus 7…in kit form no less. They compare it to a car already made, that has a back seat, AC, radio, etc and it’s a hard sale. You have to show them that it isn’t so daunting to put the thing together and you have to ask them, do they want a real sports car or a sporty sedan.
 
....I think PADI says about 1 million new divers are certified in the US annually......while gear sales are 200 - 240 million $ annually...so the average annual diver expenditure is $ 200 - $ 240 ish ??? You can barely get a basic fin/mask/snorkle BOW 'kit' for that these days.....sure looks like there are one heck of a lot of 'divers' who are NOT buying any gear !!!

I, too, have heard that "about a million a year" number thrown around. I have no possible way to know if that is correct or not correct. When viewed in the aggregate, the average sales per student probably would be lower than you might expect. Remember, only a small portion of new divers purchase anything beyond the basic equipment. I expect that many also use alternative markets and used gear markets.

Remember, the statistics I quote ONLY account for the market in professional dive stores. Of course, these number would also include the most robust of the online stores.

Phil Ellis
www.divesports.com
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/peregrine/

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