Why do many manufacturers prefer you don't work on your own regulators?

[halocline]

The reason some dive shops and manufacturers restrict parts and otherwise discourage self service is simple; they can get away with it because the market is so small. The automotive industry simply cannot get away with it. There's enough of a market for parts that aftermarket companies will produce parts, which basically forces the manufacturers to sell parts themselves or lose all the parts business. If the market for regulator parts was big enough, the same thing would happen. As it stands there is a tiny market for some specific regulator parts, and as an example, vintage double hose is now producing and selling rubber parts for many vintage regulators, including some parts that are still available to dealers from the manufacturer.

It's about money, pure and simple. The liability bit is particularly absurd when you consider that the 'training' for certified technicians at dive shops consists of a weekend seminar that nobody fails. And the dive shops would have much less liability for the sale of parts than for actually doing the service. After all, at that point they are only responsible for the integrity of the part, NOT the service. So on the liability thing, BULL$H!T.

 

[gtstricky]

Alright... so lets say it is a scam/falsehood.

What happens if it does change? Are the industry giants so dependent on their dealer network that it could cause a industry collapse? Without the guarantee of service would sales loyalties dry up?

(not asking leading questions I really don't know and have not thought about it)

 

[TSandM]

I honestly doubt that that many people would work on their own regs. The tools aren't cheap, and it's frustrating to run into a problem you can't solve and have no one to turn to to help you. If I didn't have the backup I have, I probably wouldn't do my own regs -- and in fact, I'm worried by the fact that the backup I have counted on is leaving. I just don't do enough of them to have seen all the potential problems and know the answers.

Because of this, I'm really not sure why the big brands don't make kits available to whomever wishes to purchase them. I think the shops would lose maybe 5% of their service business, and it's a 5% comprised of people who are probably generally a PITA.

 

[LeadTurn_SD]

I honestly doubt that that many people would work on their own regs. The tools aren't cheap, and it's frustrating to run into a problem you can't solve and have no one to turn to to help you. If I didn't have the backup I have, I probably wouldn't do my own regs -- and in fact, I'm worried by the fact that the backup I have counted on is leaving. I just don't do enough of them to have seen all the potential problems and know the answers.

Because of this, I'm really not sure why the big brands don't make kits available to whomever wishes to purchase them. I think the shops would lose maybe 5% of their service business, and it's a 5% comprised of people who are probably generally a PITA.

As one of those PITA DIY customers, I have to agree .

The vast majority of divers do NOT want to service their own regs.

I do not think selling parts to customers is going to drive brick and mortar dive shops under. All it will do is increase their income a fraction of a percent.... they will be able to mark up the parts and make some profit selling them, just like they do with any other gear they sell.

Does anyone remember, many years ago, when you could purchase "Travel Kits" (service kits) for regs? I do not specifically remember that in the mid-70's, but I had been told either Scubapro or Aqualung (both?) used to to that?

Currently, it would be instructive to see if Dive Rite, Zeagle and HOG are in financial trouble due to selling parts to consumers. I hope that is not the case, because I applaud them for making parts available.

Best wishes.

 

[NAM001]

I dont know how true that is. I went to a scubapro dealer and was told that they do not have kits for resale, only kits available are for inhouse technicians to service regs. They are provided free tothe shop "NOOT FOR RESALE" They told me that that stance was a condition for the scubapro franchize. From talking to others I have been told the same and that they would loose the franchize if discovered kits were being released to the general public. Imediately after that,,,,, they told me where i could get the kits outside the LDS / and manufacture environment. So to put blame the LDS for the problem may be a little missplaced, but prehaps not.
BTW i looked on ebay using the search words "scubapro annual kit" stuff is still out there. I have found that many of the kits sold there are out of date kits.

I am not sure there are any manufacturers who formally prevent parts sales to divers. A local Scubapro dealer told me that there is no such prohibition in the dealer agreement. But the manufacturer/distributor does verbally encourage shops not to make such sale.

HOG is a leader in allowing such sales and providing support (training and documentation) but they still have silly restrictions. Hopefully they will outgrow them but there is also always the possibility they will change their mind in the restrictive direction to get more LDS doors to open. Zeagle and Dive Rite seem to provide less opposition to such sales but that may also be up in limbo. Since GE law demands such sales, the dedicated DIYer can always seek foreign contacts. Used to be there were open sales on the internet but it looks like Scubapro (and others) managed to shut those open sales down.

The reason is to force divers to be dependent on (and pay) their authorized retailers. But I guess they believe the truth might not be good for their image so they choose to play the liability card thinking that, somehow, makes it better.

I hate liars.

 

[ams511]

Alright... so lets say it is a scam/falsehood.

What happens if it does change? Are the industry giants so dependent on their dealer network that it could cause a industry collapse? Without the guarantee of service would sales loyalties dry up?

(not asking leading questions I really don't know and have not thought about it)

As the industry is structured currently the manufacturers have the power, there is not a single or group of large dealers (think Walmart) dominating sales. If there was then the power shifts to the dealer because they can force the manufacturer into concessions by threatening to drop their product. Companies bend over backwards (which lowers profits) for Walmart because they are such a large retailer, for some large manufacturers 25% or more of their sales comes from Walmart. If Walmart drops them a few dedicated customers may seek out the product elsewhere but most others will just purchase something else.

 

[halocline]

I honestly doubt that that many people would work on their own regs. The tools aren't cheap, and it's frustrating to run into a problem you can't solve and have no one to turn to to help you.

Regulator servicing tools are FAR less expensive than automotive servicing tools or even plumbing servicing tools. While it is frustrating to get into a problem that you can't solve, this happens routinely with all sorts of DIY activities. I wonder what percentage of car owners do their own maintenance? It's not really a fair comparison because demographically, divers are a far more specific group than car owners.

But still, I believe a significant percentage of serious, regular divers would want to service their own regs. This group does represent a tiny portion of the LDS market; something like 80-90% of people that complete an OW class do not continue diving on any sort of regular basis. So it's likely that the vast majority of people that buy new regulators at dive shops will not only never service them, they will rarely use them.

---------- Post added June 18th, 2014 at 08:29 AM ----------

Alright... so lets say it is a scam/falsehood.

What is a scam or falsehood? The liability excuse is, but the policy itself is not. It's their stuff, they can do with it as they want.

Regarding the collapse of the industry, retail sales at the local level are suffering in all sorts of recreational/non-essential-goods areas. Change is afoot in all sorts of consumer-related industries.

 

[ams511]

Regarding the collapse of the industry, retail sales at the local level are suffering in all sorts of recreational/non-essential-goods areas. Change is afoot in all sorts of consumer-related industries.

Wages are stagnant while the cost of living is not so people no longer have the time or money to spend on expensive sports. Some point out that scuba is no more expensive than golfing but golfing has a business/social aspect to it while scuba does not. Also every area of any size has a golf course while good diving destinations are rarer.

Also the dive industry seems to relish in adding new gear requirements on divers. In the beginning you were good to go with a tank, a regulator, a depth gauge, and some type of harness. Then an SPG was added. Then a BC was added, first a horse collar then a jacket, Then an extra regulator for your buddy was added. Then a computer was added. Then a surface signalling device was added. All this increases the cost of scuba in the name of increased safety but has diving actually become safer. Not to mention you need the mask, fins, snorkel, and weight belt.

 

[ktomlinson]

Regulator servicing tools are FAR less expensive than automotive servicing tools or even plumbing servicing tools. While it is frustrating to get into a problem that you can't solve, this happens routinely with all sorts of DIY activities. I wonder what percentage of car owners do their own maintenance? It's not really a fair comparison because demographically, divers are a far more specific group than car owners.

I bought a set of tools specifically to use for working on regulators a year ago, I think I remember it being around $350. Who knows how many divers want to rebuild their own regs though. It would probably be more if divers knew how easy it is to do. The most difficult thing is finding manuals and rebuild kits! If taught as a class the skills should be within most divers capability.

 

[Hank49]

I bought a set of tools specifically to use for working on regulators a year ago, I think I remember it being around $350. Who knows how many divers want to rebuild their own regs though. It would probably be more if divers knew how easy it is to do. The most difficult thing is finding manuals and rebuild kits! If taught as a class the skills should be within most divers capability.

Most fishing reels are more complicated. Piston regs are pretty simple.