Why do many manufacturers prefer you don't work on your own regulators?

[gtstricky]

ok.

https://www.clarkfountain.com/case-...cuba-diver-caused-by-negligence-of-dive-shop/ (no amount listed)

But I doubt you will find many that are not settled out of court by the insurance.

 

[rhwestfall]

again, not relevant as it appears this may be poor service, and theoretically would make a case for them to sell you the parts as you then have the risk, not them.

keep trying....

 

[cerich]

I know of a few,
. In my experience and from what i have been told, most equipment lawsuits are masks from kids jumping in the pool and the glass breaking. BCD's are MUCH scarier and more likely to kill somebody than regs as well.

I carry liability insurance, strange the service issue has never come up and the underwriter for my insurance also is the underwriter for TDI who has approved the specialty... FWIW

This is more about how some dive shops hate my guts for making the service class available, they feel I am pulling work away from them. I think they are wrong, mosyt tech divers are not bringing their half dozen regs to get serviced wevery year or even every 4 years.

They also hate that the HOG reg is sold at a price that is half to a third what they are trying to sell regulators for, the seem to be able to ignore the REAL market that has regulators of EVERY brand selling at the same price point or less online and at larger chains/volume retailers. Instead they live in a fantasy world where every reg should and darn it will sell at $500-600 dollars thank you very much! so they sit there and curse me while losing sales ON THE BRANDS THEY CARRY to online sources all day..and if they did match they would make 10-30% margin, I offer them more margin but it's easier to just be bitter.

But, if you feel the more you pay the better you get, for goodness sake, DON"T BUY HOG!

Thank you.

Can you find a sample of cases where a scuba manufacturer, dealer, or anyone other than the user was found to be liable as a result of a regulator (or other gear) failure?

 

[gtstricky]

deleted.

 

[cerich]

you made a very specific allegation and supported it with your experience in the insurance industry, can you back it up by legal precedent or facts?

He asked for a very specific example and I gave it (twice). Do you have a specific case you want me to spend 30 seconds on google looking for than ask.

 

[kr2y5]

HOG makes it very clear that they do not teach repair or sell parts to end users. They push all the liability to the dealers. As soon as a dealer loses its shop because of a lawsuit this will close down.

Suppose that I, as a customer who purchases training and parts from HOG or whatever other brand, sign some sort of a legal clause stating that I accept responsibility for any service I will perform on the equipment, and that I will not sue the company that sold me the the parts and training unless the parts I purchased were defective. Do you think that there exists a law that would render any such clause void and unenforceable in court, no matter how it is phrased, and that as a result, no such clause in practice could possibly offer real protection? If yes, I would be very much interested in learning about that law. If no, then I do not see a problem here...

 

[mathauck0814]

My $0.02 is that most people these days don't take shop, they don't have experience with pneumatics, gauges or tools. In a "throw away and replace" society, manufacturers cater to what the majority wants. Because the dive industry isn't very large, they struggle to cater to multiple audiences. So my guess is that because most people are incapable of doing a good job working on their equipment, the dive companies don't want them touching anything and then getting sued for someone else's lack of knowledge later.

Liable or not, getting sued sucks. It costs money, causes stress and is an all around pain. Easier to set policies to prevent yourself from being sued (I'd imagine that the manufacturer sheds most of the liability by having shops employ people who service regs. That way the "injured" party would have to prove something systemically wrong with the reg to come back to the manufacturer after they went after the tech and the shop he worked for).

 

[Wookie]

I have also noticed that just about every time a reg has any problems the first thing out of a divers mouth is "But I just had it serviced!"

Are you mostly seeing bad adjustments leading to slight free flows, or is it something more substantial than that? Most of the ones I saw were free flows, and if I knew at the time how to adjust them and had the handy little tool, I could have killed in tips on some days! I figure most of those were caused by technicians that had poor high frequency hearing ('cause they're old) and refused to (or were too lazy to) do bubble checks. Or they didn't cycle the reg enough to break in the seat.

According to Scubapro I'm the most dangerous type of reg technician, because I only do about 10-15/ year. But when I sent out my last batch of regs to an approved technician they all came back with regs on the wrong hoses, out of adjustment, etc. And he still charged me for the parts kits that I provided. Not happy. But since I have a program to be responsible for rather than just myself, I guess I'll keep sending them out and fixing them when they get back. For liability reasons.

For instance. AWAP was on the boat one time when someone was testing their reg on the surface before they jumped, and he will verify. The reg was a G250, which I happen to think is one of the finest regs ever built. The problem is that if the lever isn't correctly installed int he barrell, the lever will collapse and the regulator will fail to deliver air. This didn't collapse in the water, although others have, it collapsed on deck. Not a big deal to fix, but "He'd just had it serviced". This week, a diver had a breathable seconsd stage like an air 2, although it wasn't a scubapro. His poodle jacket was slowly auto inflating. No big, right, unplug the inflater hose and dive anyway. He wasn't comfortable doing that, so we replaced his schreader valve. Found a ton of goop and a rusty schreader valve inder the button. removed the schreader valve and the case was cracked, so air was leaking past the schreader valve into the corrugated hose.

That's the kind of failures I'm used to seeing. Obviously someone serviced the breathy part of the regulator, but not the whole thing. I take care of my stuff better than that, BECAUSE THE MANUAL TELLS ME EXACTLY HOW TO DO IT. Rebuilding an inflater you always replace the schreader valve. Why didn't someone replace it when rebuilding an inflater regulator?

 

[gtstricky]

Suppose that I, as a customer who purchases training and parts from HOG or whatever other brand, sign some sort of a legal clause stating that I accept responsibility for any service I will perform on the equipment, and that I will not sue the company that sold be the the parts and training. Do you think that there exists a law that would render any such clause void and unenforceable in court, no matter how it is phrased, and that as a result, no such clause in practice could possibly offer real protection? If yes, I would be very much interested in learning about that law. If no, then I do not see a problem here...

Well yes and no. It is hard for a waiver to apply to a third party. For example you are dead and your wife and children sue. They did not sign the waiver and are suffering now that you are dead. Plus waiver are argued in court all the time. Even if the manufacturer wins there is a hefty legal cost.
N.J. Court Allows Wrongful Death Suit Despite Waiver

 

[cerich]

Depends on the state, country etc. Frankly lawsuits when making scuba gear is going to happen, that is why we carry insurance.

That said I have seen the whole selling of service kits blamed on insurance (lie), I have seen shops tell customers they cant allow them to come on a trip with equipment bought elsewhere, like the internet with a insurance inspection that costs $200 (lie), I have seen so much crap blamed on the insurance companies in this industry that it's a joke and the consumer is hardly as stupid as the jerks that are lying think they are. It's one of the (many)reasons the dive industry is failing. I know it may seem nuts but customers don't like being lied to, bullied or otherwise made to feel bad about their purchase decisions.

Just my 2psi

the dive industry is on 0 psi and trying to do a cesa...we'll see how that work out.

Well yes and no. It is hard for a waiver to apply to a third party. For example you are dead and your wife and children sue. They did not sign the waiver and are suffering now that you are dead. Plus waiver are argued in court all the time. Even if the manufacturer wins there is a hefty legal cost.
N.J. Court Allows Wrongful Death Suit Despite Waiver