Why do many manufacturers prefer you don't work on your own regulators?

[gtstricky]

It's one of the (many)reasons the dive industry is failing.

Probably needs a new thread but I would like to hear more. I have only been on here a few days so I have not seen or heard that the industry is having issues. What is going on?

 

[redacted]

Yes. Why?
$5 million awarded to elderly parents when scuba diver dies due to defective equipment. Los Angeles County. - Jury Verdict Alert

Thank you again. That is an example of a manufacturer held liable for a product that the manufacturer admits was defective. The mfgr claimed it was not the cause of the fatal heart attack but expert testimony proved it was.

Do you have anything related to the service of a regulator? I ask because I hear so many claims of liability but I find not cases. Even when settled out of court, there must be a public record of the filing and the specifics of the claim.

 

[cerich]

Probably needs a new thread but I would like to hear more. I have only been on here a few days so I have not seen or heard that the industry is having issues. What is going on?

continuously underperforming the economy the last decade plus. certs are down, we have lost ~half the full time shops and things are not looking like an improvement anytime soon

 

[Wookie]

Thank you again. That is an example of a manufacturer held liable for a product that the manufacturer admits was defective. The mfgr claimed it was not the cause of the fatal heart attack but expert testimony proved it was.

Do you have anything related to the service of a regulator? I ask because I hear so many claims of liability but I find not cases. Even when settled out of court, there must be a public record of the filing and the specifics of the claim.

I know of a few cases of the shop being sued along with the manufacturer, but it was for selling the "defective equipment", not for servicing it. In one particular recent case, the shop settled and the manufacturer won, or was dismissed, which is a win in my book.

To my way of thinking this is a profit driven issue, although I hesitate to use the word greed which seems to get bandied about. Let's see, instruction is a loss leader, air fills are number 2 for losing a shop money, I guess they have to make it up with gear sales and service.

Sadly, most shop service technicians must be idiots if the failure of divers is as I (anecdotally) think it is. I carry a $5k per year shop liability policy specifically so I can repair regulators on the boat. So some insurance company somewhere also thinks there is some liability associated with service and repair of regulators. Personally, I don't believe it, but I sure pay a lot for the privilege.

 

[ktomlinson]

I know of a few cases of the shop being sued along with the manufacturer, but it was for selling the "defective equipment", not for servicing it. In one particular recent case, the shop settled and the manufacturer won, or was dismissed, which is a win in my book.

To my way of thinking this is a profit driven issue, although I hesitate to use the word greed which seems to get bandied about. Let's see, instruction is a loss leader, air fills are number 2 for losing a shop money, I guess they have to make it up with gear sales and service.

Sadly, most shop service technicians must be idiots if the failure of divers is as I (anecdotally) think it is. I carry a $5k per year shop liability policy specifically so I can repair regulators on the boat. So some insurance company somewhere also thinks there is some liability associated with service and repair of regulators. Personally, I don't believe it, but I sure pay a lot for the privilege.

I'm curious how they priced that liability insurance. Is that JUST for servicing equipment or does it cover other things also? I'm just saying, if no one can produce evidence of a shop being sued for servicing equipment, then $5k seems steep.

 

[Wookie]

I'm curious how they priced that liability insurance. Is that JUST for servicing equipment or does it cover other things also? I'm just saying, if no one can produce evidence of a shop being sued for servicing equipment, then $5k seems steep.

I can show you the sheet, but we don't do travel promotions, we don't have a "shop", we don't do any retail sales. We do sell blended gas, we rent equipment, and we repair equipment. We do not VIP or hydro cylinders, we do provide instruction, but that falls under the boat policy, we do not do Open Water, we do nitrox and solo only. We do not have a pool or any inventory, we do not have business interruption or any insurance on the building. We do on $100k of contents.

I got the policy as a customer service so we could rent or repair gear. Because when they say "My regulator doesn't work, and I just had it serviced", it isn't any fun to stare at them for the next week, especially when I have the skills to fix what ails them.

 

[ktomlinson]

I can show you the sheet, but we don't do travel promotions, we don't have a "shop", we don't do any retail sales. We do sell blended gas, we rent equipment, and we repair equipment. We do not VIP or hydro cylinders, we do provide instruction, but that falls under the boat policy, we do not do Open Water, we do nitrox and solo only. We do not have a pool or any inventory, we do not have business interruption or any insurance on the building. We do on $100k of contents.

I got the policy as a customer service so we could rent or repair gear. Because when they say "My regulator doesn't work, and I just had it serviced", it isn't any fun to stare at them for the next week, especially when I have the skills to fix what ails them.

Wow, that's steep! I didn't mean to imply that I didn't believe you, I do, I was just taken aback by the rate. On my instructor policy I had the option to add rental equipment coverage for $250. I read the policy and didn't see any language about who repairs the rental equipment.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Going by the liability theory:

As a side by side comparison.
So in other words, if I go and buy a set of brake pads from Toyota (which they will sell me no problem) and install them incorrectly (pretty hard to screw up, but humor me here) and go out and kill somebody on the road as a result, does that mean I can sue the dealership and the manufacturer? Or the person I killed, their family sue me and the dealership and the manufacturer?
All I see is the family able to sue me because I screwed up the brake job, but if I kill myself diving from my own bad rebuild how is the dealer or manufacturer liable? Just because they sold it to me?

I'm failing to see any difference.

I just think the dive industry is holding on to this policy with a death grip tooth and nail because they are watching their scam disolve as we speak.

We have a choice, it's called buy regs from people who will support the DIY'er. Not everybody is a DIY, but many tech divers and hands on types are. A sale is a sale, even if it's parts kits. Like I said, 99% of the public will still bring in their regs and have somebody do them, but some won't for various reasons. It won't take one iota of business away, it's only going to increase business because you are supporting EVERYONE and not suckers that you can BS.
That good word will spread to everyone eventually.


Don't they get it???

 

[Wookie]

Going by the liability theory:

As a side by side comparison.
So in other words, if I go and buy a set of brake pads from Toyota (which they will sell me no problem) and install them incorrectly (pretty hard to screw up, but humor me here) and go out and kill somebody on the road as a result, does that mean I can sue the dealership and the manufacturer?

I'm failing to see any difference.

I just think the dive industry is holding on to this policy with a death grip tooth and nail because they are watching their scam disolve as we speak.

We have a choice, it's called buy regs from people who will support the DIY'er. Not everybody is a DIY, but many tech divers and hands on types are. A sale is a sale, even if it's parts kits. Like I said, 99% of the public will still bring in their regs and have somebody do them, but some won't for various reasons. It won't take one iota of business away, it's only going to increase business because you are supporting EVERYONE and not suckers that you can BS.
That good word will spread to everyone eventually.


Don't they get it???

How about this. You go buy your pads at the dealership, install them incorrectly, and hit a tree and die. Your wife sues the dealership that sold them to you saying that you weren't qualified to install them, and they didn't certify you as a brakepad installation technician. Wait. An advanced brakepad installation technician. Wait, a Master brakepad installation technician. Maybe just rescue.

Yup, seems a stretch to me, too.

You know, I am fully qualified to change a set of brake pads. I don't any more, because I don't have to. I'd rather spend my time maintaining my boat than the truck. I don't go to an authorized Ford brake pad installation facility, although I could. I have my choice of several establishments I may choose to visit, maybe none of whom are factory trained mechanics for Ford products.

 

[eelnoraa]

I really don't think, for Scubapro or Aqualung, those big brands, it has anything to do with liability. At least it is not the main reason they want to keep user from doing their own service, not even close. It is all about $$ and protecting their dealers, and in turn shield themselves from the end users.

But from end user point of view, I do not mind at all if the dealers are doing a good job. I may rather spend my time on something else than servicing my own regulator. People do this all the time, like higher gardener, go to auto shop for brake pad change (above example) ..... None of these are rocket science. With a little learning, most can do it. But still most will rather have someone else do t.