WHY Dive shops make you Feel GUILTY ???

[OE2X]

Perhaps the answer is not to rely on a salesman to tell you what to buy...

Yeah. Better listen to those of us anonymous know it all posters.

 

[redacted]

Ergo, the person actually exchanging goods for cash doesn't even have to be a diver in order to provide the expected retail experience.
.

Hell, he could probably just be replaced with and IP address. :dazzler1:

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

If a guy is standing before me and says, I use this gear, I dive with it, I see his credentials as a diver,

In many cases, what you see is an illusion. There are many dive shops that require their employees to use only the gear that is sold in the store ... regardless of whether or not it's the gear the employee would prefer to use. In many cases, the requirement is for specific gear ... based not on performance, but on the retail margins. That's a fairly common LDS business model. The reason is simple ... something like 75% of scuba students end up purchasing the gear that their instructor or LDS retailer recommends to them.

I know a guy who owns three top-line brands of drysuit ... because every time he moves to a different shop he's required to purchase the brand of suit that shop sells.

Does that really provide you with anything useful to make an informed purchasing decision?

LDS do not hire uncertified divers to sell gear, I'm more apt to listen to him than an Internet merchant on the phone that doesn't vis from vase.

I beg to differ ... on both sides of this allegation. A great many Internet retailers are run by, and staffed by, divers. On the other hand, I have also known dive shop employees who were hired, and were OW certified as part of the hiring agreement. These people know nothing about dive gear when they're hired ... and after the fact they only know about the gear the dive shop sells. Again, you are making assumptions about the quality of information you are receiving that isn't necessarily based on fact.

See my previous post ... making broad-brushed allegations benefits no one. There are dive shops out there ... and Internet-based businesses out there ... who can offer you quality and knowledgeable service. There are also dive shops ... and Internet-based businesses ... who are only interested in selling you the highest mark-up gear they can push. It's up to you to research your purchase ... don't just take someone's word for it because they tell you "it's what I dive". They may be sincere, or not, but there's really no way you can tell short of actually diving the gear.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[RonFrank]

I keep reading in this thread that one of the edges that an LDS can have is a flexible policy on returns, ie let people take gear away and try it out.
I would certainly not shop at a place that would try to sell me as new, a piece of equipment that has already been used and possibly abused.
If I bought a reg for example that somebody had already tried. How would I know if it had been used with dirty air or sea water had got into the first stage or the user tried tweaking the 2nd stage adjustment just to see the variation?
If I am buying new, I expect the gear to be in the exact condition it came from the manufacturer.

First off, the LDS SHOULD put new regs, and BCD's, on the bench, and check them out. This is going to result in them NOT being exactly in the condition they came from the manufacture.

Second, most LDS's have rental equipment, and generally they perfer to let the customer try that. However they ALSO have return policies JUST LIKE ONLINE Vendors. So is there a chance that what you purchase from EITHER an LDS OR an Online vendor is going to be opened or slightly used... possibly. However most retail shops sell return gear as open box (which means you generally STILL pay a LOT more then online prices) however I've definately got some stuff from LP that was NOT in a sealed box. The contents did NOT appear used, but it could have definately been on display (A knife).

Third, for the most part who cares? I certainly would return merchandise that looked used, but if it has been in the water once does that really detract from the value?

 

[pilot fish]

Indeed. So we should get our information from divers that are not actively trying to sell us something, and then go to a third party to buy the gear we have already decided on. Therefore, we don't want the person we're actually buying the gear from to give us advice. This is what you're saying, correct?

Ergo, the person actually exchanging goods for cash doesn't even have to be a diver in order to provide the expected retail experience.

I like the way you think, Pilot Fish.

You said, what the salesman "tells" you to buy. Not always a great idea. If a diver suggest a piece of gear because he knows it and dove with it, I listen and respect that.

Those were words you should **live by**, NOT DIVE BY.

I like it better when we agree, but you're getting there .

 

[jonnythan]

You said, what the salesman "tells" you to buy. Not always a great idea. If a diver suggest a piece of gear because he knows it and dove with it, I listen and respect that.

Those were words you should **live by**, NOT DIVE BY.

I like it better when we agree, but you're getting there .

So does the salesman count for more, less, or the same as a diver who is *not* trying to sell you a piece of gear?

 

[RonFrank]

Just like there are great LDS's and not so great LDS's there are varying degree's of Online service. You can't just put all online vendors in the catagory of "BAD SERVICE" and all LDS's in the catagory of "GOOD".

As most Online vendors have RETAIL storefronts, are they an LDS, or an online vendor?? MY LDS is starting to sell online. My hope is that they will do well, lower there prices, prosper, and I'll no longer have to buy online!!

As to selling returned gear as new, most places will do so IF it does not LOOK returned. One problem I have with one of the local camera stores is that they will sell display merchandise as new..... This stuff get handled a LOT.

In any event, every store is different. Our LDS does have some open box type specials, but I've also seen them take back stuff, and put it right back on the shelf if it shows no sign of use.

If anyone is going to sell returned scuba gear my guess would be that an online dealer would be more likely. You are a stranger to them, and them to you. An online dealer that had instructors, diver sales staff, a pool and holds classes is less apt to do this. At least in a LDS you can eyeball the gear before you get it. If you buy online you have no idea where that gear came from, or was before you use it.

 

[pilot fish]

In many cases, what you see is an illusion. There are many dive shops that require their employees to use only the gear that is sold in the store ... regardless of whether or not it's the gear the employee would prefer to use. In many cases, the requirement is for specific gear ... based not on performance, but on the retail margins. That's a fairly common LDS business model. The reason is simple ... something like 75% of scuba students end up purchasing the gear that their instructor or LDS retailer recommends to them.

I know a guy who owns three top-line brands of drysuit ... because every time he moves to a different shop he's required to purchase the brand of suit that shop sells.

Does that really provide you with anything useful to make an informed purchasing decision?



I beg to differ ... on both sides of this allegation. A great many Internet retailers are run by, and staffed by, divers. On the other hand, I have also known dive shop employees who were hired, and were OW certified as part of the hiring agreement. These people know nothing about dive gear when they're hired ... and after the fact they only know about the gear the dive shop sells. Again, you are making assumptions about the quality of information you are receiving that isn't necessarily based on fact.

See my previous post ... making broad-brushed allegations benefits no one. There are dive shops out there ... and Internet-based businesses out there ... who can offer you quality and knowledgeable service. There are also dive shops ... and Internet-based businesses ... who are only interested in selling you the highest mark-up gear they can push. It's up to you to research your purchase ... don't just take someone's word for it because they tell you "it's what I dive". They may be sincere, or not, but there's really no way you can tell short of actually diving the gear.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I think much of what you say is accurate, in some dive shops. I guess I've been lucky to have real experienced divers help me at my dive shop. What I'm saying is that anything, and everything, that a LDS could be guilty of, an online scuba merchant could be guilty of too. Yes, there are online scuba dealers that also have real divers, instructors and a pool to try gear out in, Scuba Toys comes to mind, but many do not and know nothing of diving.

 

[RonFrank]

All you folks who expect the LDS to match online pricing, or you walk away will happily drop off empty tanks for filling and your salt-encrusted un-rinsed regs for servicing. When my local guy went under, I had to buy a compressor since I was having to drive 1/2 hour each way to get a fill it got a little tiresome.
You're going to miss your dive store when they are gone.

Our LDS's certified over 1000 divers last year. My guesss is that 90% of them purchased ALL their personal gear from them. At $65 for a mask I can purchase at LP for $25, THAT is a LOT of business, and THAT is why I'm rather convinced they will NOT lower the prices. They get new divers in all the time, they are NOT Dive Gear shopping savvy, they do NOT know what they need, or what will fit, and they DO purchase from the LDS.

All that said, I drive 1/2 each way to GET to the LDS, and there are about a dozen within that distance... if a couple go under I have little concern as there are MANY who are doing a booming business in our area. The owners drive the cars to prove it!!

 

[pilot fish]

So does the salesman count for more, less, or the same as a diver who is *not* trying to sell you a piece of gear?

Skewed premise.

I listen to the diver that is not trying to sell me what he will make the most profit on. I do not listen to a scuba merchant that does not dive and does not know how a piece of gear works uw.

Before you and I go in further circles, let us agree that we both have a different criteria in scuba gear purchases. Agreed?