DIR- GUE Why did GUE remove Tech1+ endorsement?

[johnkendall]

I agree that adding a bottom stage is simple, so is adding a second deco gas, and what is a bit more deco obligation, and pushing to full thirds on cave 1.

This is how normalization of deviance occurs. I didn’t join an organization with strong standards and procedures to violate them on a routine basis.

Good

Now let's look sensibly at this. For me, I add a 2nd deco gas well before I add a bottom stage. While it might seem like a handy thing to do, to use the stage and not touch (much) backgas, you're now doing a dive lugging around 2 bottles. You have gained extra risk (as you can now confuse the bottles at gas switches), though these can be mitigated somewhat), but more importanly you're lugging around more kit underwater just to make the surface side work nicer.
By adding the extra bottle you will probably end up using your gas quicker, and it will make the diving experience less enjoyable. So all in all, yes, you could make your diving more complex for basically little gain, or you could just stick to doubles and a single deco bottle

This is basically why Tech1+/Tech60 wasn't popular, and the class was basically never taken. You might as well at that point take T2, and get full training on diving in a range where the bottom stage actually makes a decent difference.
Or of course you could jump over to the CCR option.

Thanks
John

 

[crofrog]

Good

Now let's look sensibly at this. For me, I add a 2nd deco gas well before I add a bottom stage. While it might seem like a handy thing to do, to use the stage and not touch (much) backgas, you're now doing a dive lugging around 2 bottles. You have gained extra risk (as you can now confuse the bottles at gas switches), though these can be mitigated somewhat), but more importanly you're lugging around more kit underwater just to make the surface side work nicer.
By adding the extra bottle you will probably end up using your gas quicker, and it will make the diving experience less enjoyable. So all in all, yes, you could make your diving more complex for basically little gain, or you could just stick to doubles and a single deco bottle

This is basically why Tech1+/Tech60 wasn't popular, and the class was basically never taken. You might as well at that point take T2, and get full training on diving in a range where the bottom stage actually makes a decent difference.
Or of course you could jump over to the CCR option.

Thanks
John

Look at it from the perspective of doing two dives off a small boat. I frequently dive from a Boston Whaler using AL80s.

Consider two example dives: the first at 45m for 30 minutes, followed by a surface interval and a second dive at 40m for 25 minutes.

For Dive 1, you'd use a bottom stage and 50% deco gas. You'd finish the dive with about 170 bar of back gas and 140 bar in your Nx50, leaving you enough back gas and deco gas to complete the second dive. The second dive would only require your back gas and Nx50.

This approach simplifies logistics on smaller boats, where carrying extra doubles and swapping gear between dives can be impractical or impossible.

I don’t disagree with your point about just going straight to Tech 2 or switching to CCR. However, for me personally, I’m not sure I'll be doing enough Tech 1 diving to justify switching to CCR, either from a currency/proficiency standpoint or a financial one.

 

[grantmac]

Look at it from the perspective of doing two dives off a small boat. I frequently dive from a Boston Whaler using AL80s.

Consider two example dives: the first at 45m for 30 minutes, followed by a surface interval and a second dive at 40m for 25 minutes.

For Dive 1, you'd use a bottom stage and 50% deco gas. You'd finish the dive with about 170 bar of back gas and 140 bar in your Nx50, leaving you enough back gas and deco gas to complete the second dive. The second dive would only require your back gas and Nx50.


View attachment 866600
This approach simplifies logistics on smaller boats, where carrying extra doubles and swapping gear between dives can be impractical or impossible.

I don’t disagree with your point about just going straight to Tech 2 or switching to CCR. However, for me personally, I’m not sure I'll be doing enough Tech 1 diving to justify switching to CCR, either from a currency/proficiency standpoint or a financial one.

Your example is an outstanding use case for sidemount. Bring 3x80s and swap one during the SI.
If only GUE would see that.

 

[crofrog]

Your example is an outstanding use case for sidemount. Bring 3x80s and swap one during the SI.
If only GUE would see that.

The only thing I want to deal with less on a small boat than 2 sets of doubles, is side mount.

 

[grantmac]

The only thing I want to deal with less on a small boat that 2 sets of doubles, is side mount.

So much easier than doubles on a small boat if you know what you're doing.
DEFINITELY way easier than doubles, a bottom stage and deco bottle.

 

[crofrog]

So much easier than doubles on a small boat if you know what you're doing.
DEFINITELY way easier than doubles, a bottom stage and deco bottle.

probably depends on how strong you are. I can climb the ladder with my doubles on.

 

[rjack321]

Look at it from the perspective of doing two dives off a small boat. I frequently dive from a Boston Whaler using AL80s.

Consider two example dives: the first at 45m for 30 minutes, followed by a surface interval and a second dive at 40m for 25 minutes.

For Dive 1, you'd use a bottom stage and 50% deco gas. You'd finish the dive with about 170 bar of back gas and 140 bar in your Nx50, leaving you enough back gas and deco gas to complete the second dive. The second dive would only require your back gas and Nx50.


View attachment 866600
This approach simplifies logistics on smaller boats, where carrying extra doubles and swapping gear between dives can be impractical or impossible.

I don’t disagree with your point about just going straight to Tech 2 or switching to CCR. However, for me personally, I’m not sure I'll be doing enough Tech 1 diving to justify switching to CCR, either from a currency/proficiency standpoint or a financial one.

This is/was how people were OC diving at one time. For quite a few years in the 2000s this was standard practice here on the west coast of the USA.

The agencies (GUE and UTD) decided to formalize who and how this could happen in 2015-ish since its not without risk - principally from breathing your deco gas on descent which killed on occasion.
Shortly thereafter CCRs became more mainstream and virtually everyone doing 2 trimix dives a day who was or wanted to dive with a stage to allow for a small set of doubles to work for 2 dives switched to CCR.

The training market evolved to meet people's 2024+ needs. You can still do it of course (perhaps with some mentoring) but the market has spoken and there is very limit demand for this kind of course.

 

[grantmac]

probably depends on how strong you are. I can climb the ladder with my doubles on.

And I climb them in sidemount, but I can also easily pass bottles or clip them and pull them up myself.
Like I said I've done both and sidemount is much easier if you know what you're doing.

 

[rjack321]

And I climb them in sidemount, but I can also easily pass bottles or clip them and pull them up myself.
Like I said I've done both and sidemount is much easier if you know what you're doing.

Dude, let it go. This is the DIR-GUE subforum. They are not interested in teaching people how to SM off boats with or without a stage.

That's their prerogative, people can get relevant SM training from other agencies if they want.

 

[grantmac]

Dude, let it go. This is the DIR-GUE subforum. They are not interested in teaching people how to SM off boats with or without a stage.

That's their prerogative, people can get relevant SM training from other agencies if they want.

Narrow mindset for narrow missions I suppose.
I say that as someone who dives a DIR configuration often.